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Old November 27, 2021, 22:19   #11
Voovus
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Should "friendlies" be removed from the game altogether, or at least not spawn outside vaults/pits, e.g. something like
Playing as a druid - don't spawn non-evil natural creatures
Playing as a paladin - don't spawn non-evil humanoids/ainur
Playing as a necromancer - don't spawn undead
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Old November 27, 2021, 22:50   #12
Pete Mack
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@Voovus--
No. There is no economics to a game where all monsters are suitable for your character's strengths.
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Old November 27, 2021, 23:10   #13
archolewa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
I dont know _any_ variant where peaceful monsters arent predominantly annoying. In a game where killing rewards xp, friendlies are the real enemy.
Hence why I think if we want "friendlies" they should just be enemies that take longer to wake up. Basically, they are more willing to tolerate your presence before trying to brutally murder you.
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Old November 29, 2021, 16:53   #14
Estragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
I dont know _any_ variant where peaceful monsters arent predominantly annoying. In a game where killing rewards xp, friendlies are the real enemy.
flashbacks to playing poschengband with virtues enabled
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Old November 30, 2021, 01:34   #15
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So I played another game as a ranger and this time got a victory (which I'll upload to the ladder as soon as I finish this post). My previous impressions largely remain the same. The character class is so dependent on getting a good missile weapon and it wasn't until rather late in the game that I got one (and then I had to pump it up with a lot of enchantment scrolls). At that point, I could do reasonable damage. Before that I was mostly having to melee anything substantial, because I couldn't do enough damage for a standoff battle. It would have been nice if I had ever gotten arrows (or whatever) of holy might or slay evil but I never saw any holy might and only once got a batch of normal slay evil. Once more, no staff I sacrificed ever got me more than +0, +0 arrows, so that spell really seems a waste.

Decoy was also a waste, with one huge exception. The only time it did anything at all except immediately disappear was in the final battle versus Morgoth, when I cast one about halfway through the battle, then phased a way. Morgoth stayed next to where the decoy was. I waited and waited for it to be destroyed (he was out of my LOS) but he just stayed there. So I moved around to be in sight of him and just shot arrow after arrow into him until he died. He never once did anything back to me. It was the easiest victory against Morgoth I ever had. And when I went up close, I couldn't even see the decoy anymore. So it seems to me that *something* about this spell is broken/buggy.
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Old November 30, 2021, 06:36   #16
mrfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egavactip View Post
So I played another game as a ranger and this time got a victory (which I'll upload to the ladder as soon as I finish this post). My previous impressions largely remain the same. The character class is so dependent on getting a good missile weapon and it wasn't until rather late in the game that I got one (and then I had to pump it up with a lot of enchantment scrolls). At that point, I could do reasonable damage. Before that I was mostly having to melee anything substantial, because I couldn't do enough damage for a standoff battle. It would have been nice if I had ever gotten arrows (or whatever) of holy might or slay evil but I never saw any holy might and only once got a batch of normal slay evil. Once more, no staff I sacrificed ever got me more than +0, +0 arrows, so that spell really seems a waste.
Again, my experience is total opposite with Create Arrows. I'm currently level 50 dungeoning on L68. Using it on a staff of Cure Light Wounds gave 26 Arrows (+7,+7), Light gave 30 Mithril Arrows (+3,+5), Detect Invisible gave 25 Arrows of Venom (+8,+7), Sleep Monsters gave 27 Mithril Arrows (+6,+5), Starlight gave 28 Mithril Arrows of Slay Demon (+11,+11), Teleportation gave 31 Mithril Arrows (+5,+2), Teleportation gave 22 Mithril Arrows of Slay Undead (+4,+15), Speed gave 30 Mithril Arrows of Holy Might (+10,+15), and *Destruction* gave 26 Arrows of Venom (+8,+10).

And this is just from staves I found in my current level. Sure, when I first got the Create Arrow spell it wasn't creating great arrows when I was level 22, but now it's doing just fine.
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Old November 30, 2021, 18:44   #17
Egavactip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfy View Post
Speed gave 30 Mithril Arrows of Holy Might (+10,+15), and *Destruction* gave 26 Arrows of Venom (+8,+10)
The one staff of speed I destroyed gave me, you guessed it, +0, +0 arrows.
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Old December 1, 2021, 06:31   #18
mrfy
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Originally Posted by Egavactip View Post
The one staff of speed I destroyed gave me, you guessed it, +0, +0 arrows.
Then something is messed up. I'm using the latest nightly build and the spell is working just fine, in fact it's producing very good ammo.
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Old December 1, 2021, 12:36   #19
gglibertine
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I've just been trying out the new Ranger myself, and I love the spells! I think it's a huge improvement over earlier versions. The 1st spellbook is all good utility stuff that obviates several items I'd otherwise have felt the need to carry at all times. (Food/Remove Hunger scrolls, Neutralize Poison, Mapping, digger.) If you're playing a weaker race like Elf or Halfling, that's a really big deal; even with a Half-Troll it's handy not needing food because of the natural regeneration. And the combo of Stone to Mud and Remove Hunger as spells means you can mine to your heart's content without starving to death.

Rangers are so devastating with a good bow, there's really no need for any sort of combat spells. You get good stealth-adjacent stuff in the second spellbook as well, plus you'll never be short of good ammo. And as a half-caster, I see no reason for Ranger to have three spellbooks -- no other half-casters get three.

I think it's rock solid and really effective. Admittedly, after playing since the mid-90s I've never won with ANY race/class combo, but I'm finding an elf ranger with a good shooter is dangerous enough even at low CL that I'm able to dive deep much earlier than with other classes.
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Old December 1, 2021, 14:32   #20
archolewa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gglibertine View Post
Rangersrs are so devastating with a good bow, there's really no need for any sort of combat spells. You get good stealth-adjacent stuff in the second spellbook as well, plus you'll never be short of good ammo. And as a half-caster, I see no reason for Ranger to have three spellbooks -- no other half-casters get three.
Small nit, but Paladins and Blackguards both have 3 books. Otherwise, yeah I agree with everything you've said.
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