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Old December 14, 2010, 23:13   #11
Derakon
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I'm pretty certain that shopkeeper racism has been removed. I've been getting the same price for a given item from all relevant shopkeepers for awhile now; certainly the shop_own.txt file doesn't have any code-friendly indication of the shopowner's race. Presumably it was felt that this largely amounted to further penalizing races that already had low charisma (e.g. nobody liked half-orcs except for other half-orcs) and that the race-relations table added needless complexity.
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Old December 15, 2010, 05:03   #12
Lord Fell
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My Code-Fu is weak... but I'm pretty sure the (race) attached to the name has absolutely no in-play value. You could replace that with (vendor-bot 2000) and the game wouldn't crash.

For the most part, everything I changed in my store_own file was cosmetic. I think the different purse limits are appropriate (although I might still tweak them). I do think that adding Buy:Sell values would give different shopkeepers a bit more character.


There was definitely a fair amount of discussion about how much players do, and should rely on the shops. Semi-Ironman suggestions were made (stores won't buy/restock/etc). There was also an interesting suggestion tying store Restock to experience gain, rather than time.

Personally, I don't like too much hassle for shopping. If I *really* need something, I just don't want to be limping along without it for too long. I think that all Restore Stat potions should be commonly available at the Temple, and uncommonly available at the Alchemist.
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Old December 15, 2010, 05:52   #13
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I'm pretty certain that shopkeeper racism has been removed. I've been getting the same price for a given item from all relevant shopkeepers for awhile now; certainly the shop_own.txt file doesn't have any code-friendly indication of the shopowner's race. Presumably it was felt that this largely amounted to further penalizing races that already had low charisma (e.g. nobody liked half-orcs except for other half-orcs) and that the race-relations table added needless complexity.
It added flavor. Are we in quest of removing all flavor in the game? Because it is not necessary? Are we Vulcans? That doesn't sound like fun to me. Small things like that have impact on gameplay while having no impact on outcome.
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Old December 15, 2010, 11:51   #14
takkaria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
It added flavor. Are we in quest of removing all flavor in the game? Because it is not necessary? Are we Vulcans? That doesn't sound like fun to me. Small things like that have impact on gameplay while having no impact on outcome.
Apparently they don't have an impact on gameplay, because it's been gone for a couple of years and no-one noticed. I'm not opposed to it per se, but at one point there were something like three different factors affecting store prices and it was getting a bit silly.
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takkaria whispers something about options. -more-
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Old December 15, 2010, 12:34   #15
Dean Anderson
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Personally - and I realise this is probably a minority opinion - I was disappointed when the "auto_haggle" option was added. I think haggling added a lot of atmosphere to the town...
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Old December 15, 2010, 12:39   #16
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Apparently they don't have an impact on gameplay, because it's been gone for a couple of years and no-one noticed. I'm not opposed to it per se, but at one point there were something like three different factors affecting store prices and it was getting a bit silly.
I believe most noticed that stores have been radically changed several times, but didn't notice something as small as that to go away as well. It's minor change, people probably had quite a bit bigger issues with those changes to complain/comment about that.

When/if we remove chr completely, then I suggest we add that back to get even small variation in prices in town.
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Old December 15, 2010, 14:11   #17
fizzix
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I propose the simple, yet radical change of reducing all store maxima payouts to 2000.
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Old December 15, 2010, 14:16   #18
ewert
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I am playing with no_selling, which is just awesome for me atleast. All I could think about is making WoR stacks bigger in shops ... Otherwise I don't feel there is that much gameplay effect with mucking with stores to be worth the hassle before other things are changed.
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Old December 16, 2010, 20:29   #19
Lord Fell
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I think that Ironman is a well-established tradition for Angband, so it should be possible to add ironman-like store options. I don't play ironman myself, so I'd definitely want it to be optional.

Any thoughts on adding buy/sell modifiers on shopkeepers? Personally, I think that it would provide a bit more flavour to the game, as well as affecting the game at earlier levels when cash is tight (or perhaps at later games, when the Black Market has something you want but can't quite afford).
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Old December 17, 2010, 14:03   #20
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From a relatively fresh player's perspective:
Never used haggle, love auto-haggle, or rather just being paid what my stuff is worth. I hate haggle in real life, as well.
I kinda like the merchant-like playstyle. Trek to the dungeon, find stuff worth selling, take back to town and sell. This is useful or something to do when you are 'stuck' on a level (feel that you need a resist/more stats to proceed safely). Gather cash, sell stuff, find something in the shops and move on. I know many players of the diving conviction play differently, but for me I like to have the option to do that. So the selling-loads-of-stuff-and-buy-what-you-need game I'd like as it is. Black market is expensive, and other shops are mostly harmless anyway. Besides it is dangerous, overburdening and overconfidence can kill a char even if he were merely at a 'safe' level gathering stuff.

Different buy/sell prices would mostly be cosmetical, as would racial differences. In the game ADOM Dark Elves are penalized as one of two guaranteed has a dwarven shopkeeper. So that is a minus for that race, which some argue is compensated by superior skills. So if you give a shopping penalty to half-orcs, that might be balanced by...something.

Phase door, a kind of curing potion, word of recall, great to be assured of these. I do remember when they weren't guaranteed, and that just wasn't fun or even realistic. I mean, they are easy items for a master scribe/alchemist to make, and surely they notice that the adventurer buys a few every time in town. So of course they stock em. Potions of restore 'stat' are the closest item I see as a 'must-have' that isn't in stock now. Because you usually don't REALLY need them. However if your level 10 chars' STR got wrecked because you are an inexperienced player and fought something you shouldn't have mid-early in the game, you need one certain potion. And if it did not stock you really HAVE to do the rest 1000 turns on level 1 trick until you find it. Mabye 2-3 times if you were unlucky. And what would 1 out of 10 NEW players do then? Keep trying or quit back to WoW. Would the overall balance of the game be much disturbed if the alchemist always had a full set of these pots? Late game no matter, early game you have a cheap workaround anyway.

Anyway, I hate shopping in real life, but it's okay here in Angband...so keep it.
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