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Old December 21, 2010, 11:47   #11
LostTemplar
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Stair scumming reduce turncount but is somewhat boring. I normally stairscum for pits and uniques in my not ironman games once I have ESP.
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Old December 21, 2010, 12:36   #12
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Originally Posted by LostTemplar View Post
Stair scumming reduce turncount but is somewhat boring. I normally stairscum for pits and uniques in my not ironman games once I have ESP.
You would love my level feeling changes, it only tells you if there are pits or uniques on the level and nothing else. And it is instant.

For dos:

I think you yourself said it best. It feels cheap. I did it a lot before I made the level feeling changes for me. Now I just stairscum for an interesting level, I still have to explore to find it, but atleast I don't have to explore boring levels.
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Old December 21, 2010, 12:42   #13
dos350
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eek~ im still at it, it goes ok.. last char i detected an intense thing ( must have been a vault or something.. i never got close enough) i can only see treasure... anyway there was hounds all outside~ after bein smacked alot and teleing from freaks i found that i had no more recalls ~ eek ( dlvl like 32) anyway i raged at the vault thing or watever it was and was slain by the ogre chieftan i ran from at start of lvl ~

i think stair scummin is good~ im gonna keep tryin for a bit.. each death ive had since the start of my scum fest that has been lvl 20 + has been a decent char lost in imo unlucky ways.. i am wanting a good run from scum~ hoo!
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Old December 21, 2010, 13:09   #14
Dean Anderson
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You would love my level feeling changes, it only tells you if there are pits or uniques on the level and nothing else. And it is instant.
I took the opposite approach.

I make the feeling only appear after you've been on the current level for 2000 turns (each turn is a tenth of a move, at normal speed), but it will always appear, without the requirement to have been on the previous level for at least a certain number of turns.

That still discourages stair scumming - because you'll be leaving each level before you've had chance to get a feel for it - but means that if you enter a level in a nasty situation (with OOD monsters or uniques), you don't get penalised for chickening out and dashing back up the stairs again.

I also think it's more realistic to get a feeling for the level after you've been on it for a while rather than after you've had a good look at a different level.
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Old December 21, 2010, 13:43   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Anderson View Post
I took the opposite approach.

I make the feeling only appear after you've been on the current level for 2000 turns (each turn is a tenth of a move, at normal speed), but it will always appear, without the requirement to have been on the previous level for at least a certain number of turns.

That still discourages stair scumming - because you'll be leaving each level before you've had chance to get a feel for it - but means that if you enter a level in a nasty situation (with OOD monsters or uniques), you don't get penalised for chickening out and dashing back up the stairs again.

I also think it's more realistic to get a feeling for the level after you've been on it for a while rather than after you've had a good look at a different level.
This is good, but I think Jeff's solution in NPP is even better: rather than a fixed number of turns, you have to reveal a certain number of special squares to trigger a feeling for the current level. This forces exploration and happens regardless of speed. The special squares are completely indistinguishable from normal squares, and are assigned randomly at level generation.
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Old December 21, 2010, 13:43   #16
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Stealing a thread, but sometimes game design trumps game realisms ...

People talk of teleporting being too dangerous. Well, looking for pits/vaults in endgame usually means for me that I teleport and detect a few times after entering level. Sure, there is a chance for death. But it's fast. In real time as well as in gametime. With speeds of +30 and on, 2000 turns is eons.

And bored players like me would probably just make a macro to rest 2000 turns worth of player turns to get the feeling ...

I understand the opposition for having instant level feedback, but it is only "danger" feedback, not "cool items here". Danger and cool items do go hand in hand often of course. For me, game design and avoiding annoyance and tedium trumps realisms in this matter.
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Old December 21, 2010, 14:07   #17
dos350
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hoo ~ i do that kind of thing too ewert, im currently stairscumming with he warrior hoodover xiv, doing well// only dlvl 18 but i have some good things from floor lol! anyway godotimes~ ill probably stop stairscumming so vigorously when i get rpoison~ eek if i last that long!
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Old December 21, 2010, 14:37   #18
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I don't think I have ever stair-scummed. Not because of any moral reasons, I just accept every level as it is. Of course, I mostly play the frog_knows version still, that don't have preserve artifacts, which makes the player a bit weary of skipping levels indiscriminately.

Anyway, I thought that the loss of level feelings was introduced to discourage stair scumming, but evidently it doesn't.
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Old December 21, 2010, 14:51   #19
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Anyway, I thought that the loss of level feelings was introduced to discourage stair scumming, but evidently it doesn't.
It doesn't, because level feelings are almost useless and not a great loss. Even if they were made significantly more useful, I doubt that their loss would reduce stair-scumming by much.
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Old December 21, 2010, 15:09   #20
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i do miss level feelings but is worth it, im still on same char and i just found aruvdi and cambelego on floor of dlvl 24 or so, eek~ anyway goodtimes~

edit~ whoops one wasnt actually on floor, but was near stair monster!
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