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Old May 23, 2022, 09:40   #11
tom
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Oh yeah, and *destruction* is poor man/woman's banishment. A late game warrior without destruction is just meat on the dungeon floor
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Old May 23, 2022, 12:01   #12
gglibertine
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I'll give Stone to Mud a try and see how I like it. Brawn, Intellect, etc. are problematic for me because of the chance of losing some of a stat I can't afford to lose -- especially Strength, since I'm always struggling to avoid being overloaded and slowed down.

In my experience, Ring of Constitution doesn't increase my hit points enough to be worth it vs a Ring of Damage or Strength.
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Old May 23, 2022, 14:33   #13
Pete Mack
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Ring of CON doesn't make sense for Warrior, where getting high CON is easy. But it is highly useful for Mage.

Tom: *Destruction* is excellent, sure. But ?Teleport level shows up often in the Black Market in large inexpensive stacks. It is a must-buy object. Definitely my go-to escape.
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Old May 25, 2022, 05:33   #14
Egavactip
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Some of you are refusing to pick up some of the most useful items in the game. Destruction? You can't get enough of that. Brawn? Every single character I ever play gulps the first brawn at the first opportunity--the advantage you get in weight carrying far outweighs most disadvantages. Nimbleness and Toughness are great, too. They can give you more than you lose, and all you do is store a couple of each before using them, to make sure they don't axe a stat you need. You can really pump up your key stats that way, especially for a fighter.

I used to save teleport level but I stopped. I haven't ever missed it. I'd rather fill that slot with staves of speed or destruction or some other useful item. And in the final battles, it makes you start all over from scratch. I've won hundreds of times, so I don't think I'm doing anything wrong there.
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Old May 26, 2022, 04:23   #15
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My 2 cents:

-Mud is vital for many characters in the end game, unless you are a super high stealth or have the spell, otherwise the amount of porting/fleeing/pretunneling elsewhere/luring gets out of hand

?*Destr* is the most important escape spell for Morgoth fight. You tele Morgoth, and then wipe out all the summons, and wait Morgy to return. IMHO.

Stat swap potions, when you drink at 18 or low 18s, you get more than 1 points worth, but only lose 1 (or 10). So what you do is save them up and only use your primary stat until it is over 18, then the secondary, etc., while not going under 18 in any of the more important ones, thus you can gain 18/xx stats in 2-3 stats before real statgain if you are playing slowly.

=Con or even two are often mid level gear, because you have covered other stuff okay but are still way too low on Con to hit the big bucks and get over 400HP range without them.

?blesses chants etc can be bought in shop for the final big planned 2 fights so yeah picking em up is kinda pointless I agree...

-? confusion works only early game, but they do work, zapping an early unique with conf/stun/slow makes them often cakewalks for melee.

Dmg wands are a niche thing mostly for mages who still don't have mana and have such poor missile skills but good device. So kinda agree most of the time are not used.

-polymorph, actually ... I am so pissed off at high level hydras at the moment, I am contemplating on carrying a rod next game because I want to kill everything but hydras at 30-50 dlvl are so painful and dangerous and WORTHLESS no drops.

Dwarven stuff is godsend for melees early, and depending on drops even mid/late they might be used...

Many items do have uses, but inventory management and being strong enough to not need the extra edge is probably going to make them not be used to be honest ...
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Old May 26, 2022, 05:38   #16
mrfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewert View Post
My 2 cents:

?*Destr* is the most important escape spell for Morgoth fight. You tele Morgoth, and then wipe out all the summons, and wait Morgy to return. IMHO.
I don't use destruction for a few reasons. I hate the look of the dungeon afterwards, and there are usually better ways of reacting to his summons. TO combined with Banishment and Mass Banishment are sufficient.
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Old May 27, 2022, 01:20   #17
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Lets see:

Scrolls of blessing I use early game, to help with throwing oil or shooting slings. Later on, I dont want to dedicate a slot so blessing and its upgrades get squelched. I buy some again for the end fights.

Door destruction gets squelched as found, but *destruction* is an essential tool with many uses: emergency escape, a way to eliminate half of a vaults inhabitants, a way to get rid of summons in the Morgoth fight, it gives the ability to get rid of some annoying ood monster that prevents you from looting a profitable level in peace.

Potion of berserk strength is the best buff and it is the last one to go if slots get really tight; I try to have some for hard fights if possible. Infravision gets squelched, the stat swaps see use though: I drink main stats and collect toughness for the time when main stats are maxed.

Wands: in that list, I hold onto digging for sure; it is an essential tool right up to the Morgoth fight. That said, only 1 slot gets devoted to digging and eventually it will be a ring.

Staves: detect evil is vital for warriors - its their only monster detection in the early game - and useless for everyone else. Earthquake gets squelched, but *destruction* is very useful, see the entry under scrolls.

I have come to devote a slot to a rod of disable traps. Chest loot is very worthwhile and youll lose most of it if you set off the traps, quite apart from the danger of summons. Rogues dont carry them, though - its a matter of pride.

Amulets: same; unless I am a wisdom caster, my first amulet is likely to be an artifact.

Rings: constitution I keep with casters; characters relying on melee farm without maxed con till they have better options than rings to get con from. Reckless attack is probably my most used early game ring, maybe along with mouse. It gives extra damage at no drawback - AC can be ignored.
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Old May 27, 2022, 09:53   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfy View Post
I don't use destruction for a few reasons. I hate the look of the dungeon afterwards, and there are usually better ways of reacting to his summons. TO combined with Banishment and Mass Banishment are sufficient.
Fair enough, then again I often enjoy rebreaking LoS for next approach, but one can also argue that keeping the previous route and then tunnel a cheesy L-LoS abuse for Morgoths next approach is a good idea as well.
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Old May 27, 2022, 09:56   #19
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Reckless attack is probably my most used early game ring, maybe along with mouse. It gives extra damage at no drawback - AC can be ignored.
I think AC was changed some at some point, I see huge gains with high AC currently in melee. An out of depth big body armor piece cuts down on melee damage immensely versus early uniques.

Funnily, a very good Mouse (-4 to -6) can actually be more dmg if it gives you enough more attacks per round, while boosting your stealth as well.
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Old May 27, 2022, 15:13   #20
mrfy
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Originally Posted by ewert View Post
Fair enough, then again I often enjoy rebreaking LoS for next approach, but one can also argue that keeping the previous route and then tunnel a cheesy L-LoS abuse for Morgoths next approach is a good idea as well.
Ah, I mostly play mages and rangers so I need LOS on Morgoth in order to attack him with spells and good arrows from a distance. Just keep plenty of banishments to get rid of his summons.
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