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View Poll Results: What should be done with artifacts.
Artifacts should be more common ala 3.2-3.3? 8 34.78%
Artifacts should stay as they are, less common. 10 43.48%
Artifacts should be even more rarer, less generation chance. 4 17.39%
Birth_preserve should be permanently turned off 5 21.74%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 14, 2012, 21:31   #1
Malak Darkhunter
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Poll: what does everybody feel like should be done with artifacts.

So, their has been some talk on 3.4 and item generation, specifically artifacts, what does everybody feel should be done with artifact generation?

1.Artifacts should be generated more common ala 3.2-3.3?

2.Artifacts should stay as they are, less common.

3.Artifacts should be even more rarer to find.

4.Birth_preserve should be permanently turned off.
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Old October 14, 2012, 21:40   #2
Derakon
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I voted for "leave things as they are" if only because 3.4 hasn't been out for long so we still don't have a good feel for exactly how well it plays.

I'm not sure what removing the preserve option would accomplish, aside from pissing off a bunch of players who don't like the idea of being permanently denied an item.
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Old October 14, 2012, 21:44   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I voted for "leave things as they are" if only because 3.4 hasn't been out for long so we still don't have a good feel for exactly how well it plays.
Exactly. Give 3.4 a couple months and then it will be time to have this poll. Btw, stats suggest that raw artifact generation is down about 35%. However, artifact generation in vaults and in unique drops should not have been affected.

So even if there's a desire to change drop rates, there's still a question to how to go about it.
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Old October 14, 2012, 22:20   #4
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How about a compromise - leave the preserve option in, but if you turn it on, you're penalized by having a reduced artifact drop rate? (Or a not-increased artifact drop rate, if you decide to go with upping the drop rate!)
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Old October 14, 2012, 22:33   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
How about a compromise - leave the preserve option in, but if you turn it on, you're penalized by having a reduced artifact drop rate? (Or a not-increased artifact drop rate, if you decide to go with upping the drop rate!)
The big problem with preserve option currently is that monsters come with their drops on creation. So that means you can clear out a level and still lose an artifact because a monster just spawned on the other end of the level.
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Old October 14, 2012, 22:58   #6
Malak Darkhunter
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
The big problem with preserve option currently is that monsters come with their drops on creation. So that means you can clear out a level and still lose an artifact because a monster just spawned on the other end of the level.
could this be changed to where you don't lose the artifact unless it is on the floor?
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Old October 22, 2012, 10:52   #7
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malak Darkhunter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
The big problem with preserve option currently is that monsters come with their drops on creation. So that means you can clear out a level and still lose an artifact because a monster just spawned on the other end of the level.
could this be changed to where you don't lose the artifact unless it is on the floor?
I thought that is how this already works. In all purposes artifacts carried by monsters don't exist until the monster dies and drops them (except that they can't get generated later if they are already carried by something).
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Old October 22, 2012, 16:11   #8
Malak Darkhunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
I thought that is how this already works. In all purposes artifacts carried by monsters don't exist until the monster dies and drops them (except that they can't get generated later if they are already carried by something).
I thought that as well, at least in old angband, has then been changed at some point?
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Old October 22, 2012, 16:19   #9
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Magnate knows better than I do, but I was under the impression that artifacts in non-preserve mode are only created once. And that includes those placed in monsters inventory.
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Old October 22, 2012, 16:29   #10
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It used to be that monster drops were not generated until the monster died. Now that they are generated at the same time the monster spawns, there is code in the object clearing mechanism that treats artifacts in monster inventories as preserved.

From obj-util:
Code:
		/* Preserve artifacts or mark them as lost in the history */
		if (o_ptr->artifact) {
			/* Preserve if dungeon creation failed, or preserve mode, or items
			 * carried by monsters, and only artifacts not seen */
			if ((!character_dungeon || !OPT(birth_no_preserve) ||
					o_ptr->held_m_idx) && !object_was_sensed(o_ptr))
				o_ptr->artifact->created = FALSE;
			else
				history_lose_artifact(o_ptr->artifact);
		}
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