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Old September 17, 2015, 01:12   #1
Grotug
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Canon, Lore, History of D&D/Rogue/Moria/Angband?

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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
The blunt weapon restriction has never made any kind of sense, but oh well. It's just something D&D invented (along with many, many other "historical" irregularities like ringmail and studded leather armor) and Angband went with it.
I have been growing in curiosity about the history of Rogue and its spawns, about the lore and most intriguingly, about canon. Worm mass? (very strange idea), What is a Kobold? Is it something that was created when D&D was 'founded' or does it go back further? Molds? Which creatures are native to Rogue/D&D, which were added to Angband or Moria (aside from the obvious Tolkien ones)?

Who came up with the excellent Angband artifact descriptions? Have there been artifacts added over time to Angband or are they all the same since the game's inception?

Most importantly, what is Canon for Rogue-likes? Is there an unwritten understanding that any true Roguelike will include a certain base critter base that is canon? (kobolds, worm masses, molds? what else?) I was born in '79 but I've never played D&D and sort of regret not having done so. Cheers for links or direct answers
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Old September 17, 2015, 05:41   #2
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Roguelike games began as simulators for D&D-like RPG rules more sophisticated than the text adventure games that had been the dominant fantasy roleplaying format on multiuser systems before them. Every element of roguelike games, from procedural dungeon generation, monster and item placement, map layout, movement mechanics, experience and character advancement, stats and so on comes directly out of D&D rules with minor variations due to the strengths and weaknesses of the terminal/computer medium.

The monsters and items are a combination of whimsical grad student humor and direct imports from D&D and sometimes literary sources. As far as specifically roguelike "lore," probably bananas and other modern cultivated fruit as food items is toward the top of the list. Moria seemed to go for a less D&D heavy monster list with lots of strange animals, fungus, "yeeks," etc. more visible in the early levels.
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Old September 17, 2015, 06:28   #3
wobbly
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Pretty sure kobolds are some sort of house spirit from Germanic folklore that have as much resemblance to a d&d/angband kobold as Tolkien elves & goblins have to their real world folklore counterparts.
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Old September 17, 2015, 08:49   #4
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Was angband the first roguelike to Tolkeinize?

... aside from the fact that fantasy in genera and d&d specifically are all somewhat tolkein-influenced/derived.
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Old September 17, 2015, 09:08   #5
Mondkalb
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Kobolds are part of Germanic folklore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold

Molds are ... molds. I'm not sure whether a pun was intended to incorporate the "Magic of the Living Dungeon" (but that was obiviously not around at the time ;-))

I always have been very fond of jelly cubes. ^^

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Old September 17, 2015, 09:20   #6
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"The Solution"

"MoLD will be written cleanly in Object-Oriented Perl"
AHHHAHAHAHAH! Woo hoo! (wipes eyes). Good one.
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Old September 17, 2015, 12:24   #7
caruso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
Most importantly, what is Canon for Rogue-likes? Is there an unwritten understanding that any true Roguelike will include a certain base critter base that is canon?
There are several more or less widely accepted definitions of roguelikes, but none of them mention a particular set of opponents. About unwritten conventions, afaik most roguelikes have a fantasy theme, so I guess the majority of roguelikes features kobolds and wild animals as critters.

By the way, there is even a comic strip from the second Angband webcomic that broaches the issue of featuring kobolds as critters in Angband.
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Old September 17, 2015, 16:21   #8
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Haha, cute. Funny, tho, I was just slaughtering a group of kobolds and feeling sorry about it, then I died *very* suddenly by an Easterling warrior. (Oops, I see why it was so sudden, I turned off the -more- in messages; guess I'll turn it back on!) And then I read the comic about the kobolds.

I die too much in this game.
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Old September 17, 2015, 16:38   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondkalb View Post
Kobolds are part of Germanic folklore:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold

Molds are ... molds. I'm not sure whether a pun was intended to incorporate the "Magic of the Living Dungeon" (but that was obiviously not around at the time ;-))

I always have been very fond of jelly cubes. ^^
Kinda interesting stuff on Kobolds. Can we get a Unique of a Tomte? "A mythological creature from Scandinavian folklore.... It is generally described as being no taller than three feet, having a long white beard, and wearing a conical or knit cap in red or some other bright color. It is known as a gift bearer...."

...

"Despite his small size, the tomte/nisse possessed an immense strength."
...
"In another tale a Norwegian maid decided to eat the porridge herself, and ended up severely beaten by the [Tomte]. The being swore: "Have you eaten the porridge for the tomte, you have to dance with him!". The farmer found her nearly lifeless the morning after."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomte

One of my favorite characters from a children's book when I was a wee one was

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Old September 17, 2015, 20:51   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
Can we get a Unique of a Tomte? "A mythological creature from Scandinavian folklore.... It is generally described as being no taller than three feet, having a long white beard, and wearing a conical or knit cap in red or some other bright color. It is known as a gift bearer...."
If you look at this link...

http://www.digitalartwork.no/Angband...t_64x64_01.png

...zoom in and look at the twelfth row down, 14th tile from the left, you'll see that Shockbolt is way ahead of you!
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