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Old November 5, 2013, 15:54   #31
half
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Originally Posted by debo View Post
Materials could be replaced with other adjectives ("An etched horn", "A tapered horn", "A long horn"). You would probably want to use adjectives that don't suck as badly as mine do though
Brilliant. For materials, I'd only got as far as "A horn horn". And then stopped.
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Old November 5, 2013, 16:10   #32
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Brilliant. For materials, I'd only got as far as "A horn horn". And then stopped.
I thought of that too.

Brass, engraved, maybe ivory?
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Old November 5, 2013, 16:53   #33
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Originally Posted by debo View Post
Materials could be replaced with other adjectives ("An etched horn", "A tapered horn", "A long horn"). You would probably want to use adjectives that don't suck as badly as mine do though
This is pretty good. It would be a bigger change, but there's an argument for doing with special item types, too. It's slightly odd that after use identifying a sword of Gondolin, you know straightaway when a second sword does the same thing, but you can't pair them up before identification.
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Old November 5, 2013, 18:06   #34
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This is pretty good. It would be a bigger change, but there's an argument for doing with special item types, too. It's slightly odd that after use identifying a sword of Gondolin, you know straightaway when a second sword does the same thing, but you can't pair them up before identification.
Yes, it is odd, and mainly a vestige of my partial moving of special items to a flavour system (in Angband identifying a defender sword doesn't identify other ones, or at least didn't when Sil forked off). Adding randomised flavour prefixes would complete the move. I quite like the idea of the non-material adjectives if one was going to do this. It would still remain a little odd that all tapered swords were defenders etc, but not as bad as bronze swords, gold swords etc. I also find the NetHack adjectives a bit silly with 'hiking boots' 'jungle boots' 'combat boots' etc. Even something like 'chipped helm' would be a bit silly, in that all helms of brilliance ended up getting chipped etc.

There would remain a question about whether to hide these adjectives after identification. I'd lean towards 'yes' for special items, whereas I decided on 'no' for other flavoured items.

Maybe I'll do this in the future, though there is obviously no rush.
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Old November 5, 2013, 19:03   #35
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The problem with a trumpet is that you can't go home and drink mead out of it after the battle is won....
That's what the skulls of your enemies are for.
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Old November 5, 2013, 21:21   #36
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I quite like the idea of the non-material adjectives if one was going to do this. It would still remain a little odd that all tapered swords were defenders etc, but not as bad as bronze swords, gold swords etc. I also find the NetHack adjectives a bit silly with 'hiking boots' 'jungle boots' 'combat boots' etc. Even something like 'chipped helm' would be a bit silly, in that all helms of brilliance ended up getting chipped etc.
Yes. I actually think it would be better in this case to have adjectives which imply something special and perhaps magical about the object -- this explains how the player knows it's {special}, and also why there's consistency between ones of the same type.

For example:

Otherworldly
Silver-runed
Red-runed
Midnight-tipped
Shimmering
Ornate
Mithril-inlaid
Spotless

Those are from the top of my head, and some of them have issues, but you see the kind of thing I'm aiming at. In any case, this certainly isn't a priority.
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Old November 5, 2013, 22:05   #37
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Or perhaps a cone, like dragon breath?
Exactly. Exactly. (This message needs at least 10 characters.)
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Old November 6, 2013, 08:18   #38
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For the new version, trumpets of warning can now be ID'd by use (when they trigger a monster to shout or make a visible monster aggressive).

If there are any other non-ID-by-use items let me know. I want it to be that amulets of adornment are the only ones.
shields of wrath. You can see on the side bar that everything is aggressive. They probably eventually id, just nowhere near as quick as you notice.
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Old November 8, 2013, 06:07   #39
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@debo: Trolls never flee even with already negative confidence unless hit by a magical fear effect. Elbereth (when you have other confidence reducing but not actual fear effects) is very binary against them afair, they flee the moment you turn it on but turn back towards you the moment you stop.
As far as I can tell this is not exactly true, at least not the way I'm reading it. Playing at the moment & I can see it takes a few turns for a troll to stop running after I stop singing Elbereth. They have to get there confidence back above 0 I think if they're already fleeing.

Fighting unique orcs with an Elbereth tank is hilarious. Once 1 of the lesser orcs goes it's a massive chain reaction, till you have orcs scattering everywhere.

Edit: Does fire make snow trolls flee? I just had 1 flee from a hit from a flaming arrow.

Last edited by wobbly; November 8, 2013 at 07:21.
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Old November 8, 2013, 09:21   #40
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As far as I can tell this is not exactly true, at least not the way I'm reading it. Playing at the moment & I can see it takes a few turns for a troll to stop running after I stop singing Elbereth. They have to get there confidence back above 0 I think if they're already fleeing.

Fighting unique orcs with an Elbereth tank is hilarious. Once 1 of the lesser orcs goes it's a massive chain reaction, till you have orcs scattering everywhere.

Edit: Does fire make snow trolls flee? I just had 1 flee from a hit from a flaming arrow.
Re trolls, they can only flee if their overall morale is less than zero *and* they are suffering from a temporary morale modifier. They are immune to the non-magical temporary morale modifiers, but all of them take a little time to wear off (including Elbereth).

Re orcs, yes this was one of the most exciting aspects of implementing the Sil morale system. Even without using magical fear, you can manipulate this quite successfully. I think it is explained in full detail in the manual. Examples of using this in play include: try to get as many fleeing monsters in LOS of another one as possible to get it to flee, look for monsters near the edge of fleeing and push them over the edge, getting monster's who have escorts to flee is particularly important, visually isolate monsters from their non-fleeing comrades so they don't get morale boosts, use slaying weapons or cruel blow.

Re fire, yes ice and fire monsters are typically vulnerable to their opposing element and this acts like slaying, both with an extra die of damage and causing the temporary morale penalty.
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