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Old June 5, 2014, 02:11   #11
Malak Darkhunter
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One other thing I think would be cool would be to allow mundane {Magical} weapons actualy to have the chance to be useful, the deeper the level the higher chance of higher pluses on a weapon. Not artifact or ego, but allow an average magical weapon the chance to have pluses of +10 to +20 . I get tired of seeing magic weapons have pluses of only +7+8.
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Old June 5, 2014, 04:19   #12
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Originally Posted by Malak Darkhunter View Post
I would like to see better more detailed level feelings. One thing I always loved about Sangband was the detailed level feelings you got as your (perception) skill increased, you would get a level feeling as soon as you entered the level, and it would let you know if the level was very dangerous, held powerful uniques or held powerful objects.
Meanwhile, I want to see level feelings disappear altogether.

As for magical pluses, some degree of care needs to be taken here. Firstly, pluses are more powerful than many ego effects -- a Flail of Slay Whatever (+10,+10) is worth less than a Flail (+10,+15) in almost all cases, for example. Secondly, it'd interact poorly with the current squelch/pseudo-ID system, which classifies {magical} as strictly less good than any ego item. The latter is probably fixable as part of an overall ID overhaul, but it's worth keeping in mind.
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Old June 5, 2014, 06:05   #13
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Hidden Mimics

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First, thanks for the post - we need this sort of discussion. I'm not going to respond to all of it.
What happened?? This used to be a board full of trolls and half trolls waiting to torment the feeble & weak minded posters.. pleasantly surprised.


Re: mimics not being seen -
Quote:
I think this is actually correct behaviour. The current philosophy is that "squelching" (although that terminology will be eliminated) is actually a choice by the character to ignore certain objects. The idea is that those objects are still there, but your character cares about them so little that they just become like part of the floor. This leaves the character open to attack by creatures that have cunningly mimicked something insignificant.

That said, I don't know if I really like the behaviour, and a way around it would be nice (although I think Derakon is right about your idea).
If mimics turn out to be a squelched item, then, so as to not give away an item's identity, one idea might be to make mimics appear as a yet un-ID'd ring/potion/scroll type, OR, morph them into trappers or lurkers. This still wouldn't solve squelched $ types, and as the list of un-ID'd stuff dwindles, it gets easier and easier to spot them---either its a ring of power, or, more likely, a mimic. Another, perhaps simpler solution would be to perform a check, if a mimic turns out to be on the squelch list, then either don't generate it or pick another mob.


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If I run either right or left, and suddenly a message appears, "the 125 gold of copper coins was actually a monster!", it doesn't make sense to my character's driver behind the monitor. But, ok, my character's character flaw.
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Old June 5, 2014, 06:40   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malak Darkhunter View Post
I would like to see better more detailed level feelings. One thing I always loved about Sangband was the detailed level feelings you got as your (perception) skill increased, you would get a level feeling as soon as you entered the level, and it would let you know if the level was very dangerous, held powerful uniques or held powerful objects.
So this gives me an idea. There are people who regard level feelings as a misfeature, and people who like them. How about having occasional level feelings?

For example, you could have a random roll to decide whether to give a feeling or not, and if yes then it picks on some aspect of the generation and says something about it. Rather than an overall assessment as currently, I'm thinking things like "The bones and scratches on the floor tell of dragons" or "The air feels cold as the grave". Similarly there could be indications of types of object, or types of room.

The randomness deals with the "scum for good levels" issue, and the feelings would be more of a teaser than an assessment (which are currently pretty approximate).
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Old June 5, 2014, 06:42   #15
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Originally Posted by Spacebux View Post
Another, perhaps simpler solution would be to perform a check, if a mimic turns out to be on the squelch list, then either don't generate it or pick another mob.
Or make it be "naked", and act like one of debo's minor drujs.
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Old June 5, 2014, 10:00   #16
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Here's my two cents' worth:

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Originally Posted by Spacebux View Post
Item i: mimics are NOT visible if those items are squelched.
The 125 gold pieces worth of copper {squelch} was really a monster!
One @ will be running along a seemingly clear hallway, full of "......." dots, and boom! suddenly you run over a Ring of See Invisible that was really a mimic!. I would suggest adding a condition in the code to see if an item type for the mimic is in the squelch list or not. If it is, choose another item to imitate. This happens with all mimic types, except chests.
I posted just like you a while back and Takkaria persuaded me I was wrong. As Nick said earlier, your character simply ceases to notice e.g. rings of damage, piles of copper etc., and thus it's even more of a surprise when one bites your ankles as you storm past!

Quote:
Item ii: the item drop rates for utility rods, I think, needs to be tweaked a bit.
I disagree. If you could reliably get, as an example, rods of trap/treasure and doors for your warrior by dlvl15, then that little subgame is lost. Having a character struggle without one or more of your 'essential' rods for many levels is one of the things that makes each Morgoth-slaying effort different to the last.

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Item iii: There are times when a GV, though, is generated in the middle of the level and splits the level into two completely separate sections.
I'm sorry, but I don't see that this is a problem. It makes the game more interesting as you try to find a way round. And if not, well, there are infintely more levels to generate.

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Item iv: I think RandArts is even more enjoyable now that Charisma is no longer an attribute sucking option for the RandArts R.N.G. However, at the same time, the ↑ ↓ potions of brawn, intellect, contemplation, .. , have all but lost their worth.
I agree that the loss of CHR has made them less useful, but my warriors always use them. I collect them until I can drink one each of brawn, toughness and nimbleness at the same time. I like to think of it as a mini-augmentation cocktail and it works a treat.

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Item v: *Enlightenment* potions ought to also ID everything on the level rather than augment Int/Wis.
They feel like a throwback to me. I say lose them altogether.

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Item vi: plasma is annoying.

Item vii: following that sentiment - attacks players cannot control / defend against - time, gravity, inertia, mana storms, water, ice, et. al.
I think it's essential that some attacks cannot be defended against. Keeps you on your toes.

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Item viii: Race, not Class, should be the primary determination for HPs and initial AC adjustments.
No real opinion here.

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Item ix: Now that Charisma is a thing of the past, would be nice to re-enable the Auto-roller.
I must admit that it's been so long since I rolled for stats that I'd kind of forgotten that it was an option!

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Item x: If / when / once a player kills Morgoth, the game kind of becomes anti-climatic quickly.
Personally I've never gone deeper than dlvl100, and I find it a bit...'icky' that you can. I think that there should ne no down stair on 100 and the game should end when you recall from 5000' with Morgoth dead. Maybe that's just me? Either way, it wouldn't be anticlimactic when M goes down.

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Item xi: Along the lines of uniques grouping together, what if you had a group of semi-unique mobs.
Interesting, could work.

Quote:
Item xii: Semantics. "You see no more xxxx." That message rubs me the wrong way everytime.
Agreed. And also agreed that all and every extraneous message should be expunged.

Quote:
Item xiii: Others have clamored for a Bigger Home. Perhaps let the character potentially buy out a store and make that a 2nd or even 3rd home.
I too would like a bigger home, but please not infinite. I think it would break the game. Endgame kit would be very simple with 40 artifacts at home. The game would be made much, much easier and that's a bad thing, IMO. My idea was to have one page for consumables and another for equipment. But maybe OP's idea of buying out a store for a million gold as a second home is a better one. Like it. Especially as you would lose the (by then slight) utility of having the store that you choose to buy. I like it.

Just my opinions, as ever.

Edit: formatting
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Old June 5, 2014, 12:21   #17
Malak Darkhunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
So this gives me an idea. There are people who regard level feelings as a misfeature, and people who like them. How about having occasional level feelings?

For example, you could have a random roll to decide whether to give a feeling or not, and if yes then it picks on some aspect of the generation and says something about it. Rather than an overall assessment as currently, I'm thinking things like "The bones and scratches on the floor tell of dragons" or "The air feels cold as the grave". Similarly there could be indications of types of object, or types of room.

The randomness deals with the "scum for good levels" issue, and the feelings would be more of a teaser than an assessment (which are currently pretty approximate).
This sounds pretty good to me, not enough detail to fill you in all the time, but to occasionally give you an idea about the level just enough to make the game interesting.
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Old June 5, 2014, 12:31   #18
Malak Darkhunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattB View Post
Here's my two cents' worth:




I too would like a bigger home, but please not infinite. I think it would break the game. Endgame kit would be very simple with 40 artifacts at home. The game would be made much, much easier and that's a bad thing, IMO. My idea was to have one page for consumables and another for equipment. But maybe OP's idea of buying out a store for a million gold as a second home is a better one. Like it. Especially as you would lose the (by then slight) utility of having the store that you choose to buy. I like it.

Just my opinions, as ever.

Edit: formatting
I really don't see the need for a bigger home, you really only keep a couple artifacs for each type to swap euqipment by endgame. Alot of the artifacts actualy become pretty useless once you find the more powerful artifacts, I never have a problem runnning out of room, because I only keep what I absolutely must have.
I would like to see a museum though, just so that you can go and look and admire the treasures you find, although once you submit an artifact you cannot retrieve it.It's a member of the historical society now.
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Old June 5, 2014, 14:18   #19
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Home remedy

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I really don't see the need for a bigger home, you really only keep a couple artifacs for each type to swap euqipment by endgame. Alot of the artifacts actualy become pretty useless once you find the more powerful artifacts, I never have a problem runnning out of room, because I only keep what I absolutely must have.
I would like to see a museum though, just so that you can go and look and admire the treasures you find, although once you submit an artifact you cannot retrieve it.It's a member of the historical society now.
Yeah, its more for the sentimental value of being able to store more of those artifacts you once possessed.


. What if we did this? - artifacts sold to stores remain in store inventory, persistently.

If we can make certain that stores 4 & 6 always have 40 books available, would it be that much harder to code in a persistence routine to keep artifacts in store inventory once there? The slight drawback to the player would be, eventually store inventory would be smaller & smaller as they have fewer slots to stock supplies. The only true way to discard an artifact then would be to leave it out on the floor somewhere and leave the level. And, if a player ever wanted an artifact back, well, PAY UP, Buddy!!
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Old June 5, 2014, 14:55   #20
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I don't mind "level feelings" that are the character pointing out features of the dungeon that would be (more or less) readily apparent through observation. What bugs me is when they can mystically sense that there's just generally a lot of treasure or monsters, and even worse is when they can differentiate between the two!

It's one thing to have a character who is specifically marked as having some kind of precognition or other magical sense, but most characters should not have any idea what's on the level except through observation, directly or indirectly (which includes detection spells).
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