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Old April 28, 2010, 19:46   #21
PowerDiver
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Talking about the feeling of abuse when using create stairs ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't be opposed to any of the following (as a fix)...
1. making it a high failure rate spell, even for high-level pure casters.
2. create stairs somewhere on the current level (better if the RNG could place the new stairs away from existing stairs).
3. creating up stairs a vast majority (80%) of the time.
I really don't see the point of these changes. The raison d'etre of the spell is to let you head up or down really fast. If you don't like that, remove the spell entirely. Making the player cast it 10 times to get one useful effect is simply annoying without changing game balance appreciably.

It's easy enough to choose not to use it if you agree with me that the game is more fun without it.
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Old April 28, 2010, 21:57   #22
fizzix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fendell Orcbane View Post
Okay so now I'm on level 81, I've had to avoid a bunch of uniques. Hell I even had to teleport away from a lesser titan after it summoned a s%i@ load of Dreads on me. I was in the middle of making an ASC when this happen. In fact that Rune of Protection that I did manage to create probably helped me make a smooth escape.

It still can't seem to find a speed ring or Tensers. I've been attacking everything that I can handle and actually drops good stuff like Archliches and AMHD's but to no avail. I don't know if I should go deeper at this point, because while it seems like everywhere is dangerous it also seems like I might have a better chance of getting some speed. But on the other hand I feel like its almost safer for me to go deeper...

What does everyone think? Also who(what) should I be trying to kill for good drops at that depth?

Thanks for all of the great advice so far!

Here is my character:http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10133
Great wyrms are probably the easiest drop-good kills and have the best chance of landing you Tenser's, speed rings or branded ammo.

If everything is dangerous you are ironically safer because you pay more attention. If you feel comfortable, you are too shallow and need to go deeper.
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Old April 29, 2010, 01:11   #23
Fendell Orcbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Great wyrms are probably the easiest drop-good kills and have the best chance of landing you Tenser's, speed rings or branded ammo.

If everything is dangerous you are ironically safer because you pay more attention. If you feel comfortable, you are too shallow and need to go deeper.
Ok so great wyrm hunting it is! I'd disagree with you about being "safer" at deeper levels, only because you don't get as many chances to correct your mistakes. Case in point Uriel attacked me while I was waiting for my mana to recharge and I wasn't able to double resist. So of course he breathes fire and took out around 400 hps or so. Or at least enough to bring me below 400hp. So I just wished him away. Whereas something like that is a little less likely at level 60. I feel like monsters notice you a lot faster in the high 70's. And you get uniques that have hardcore escorts. Hell some of the escorts by themselves are a threat.

But I've been able to resist the urge to attack tempting dragon pits and uniques because I know that one false move and its -you die. So yeah you tend to be more careful, but I don't feel safer at all. I do feel like a better player though.

Ironically high level play seems a lot like low level play because you can't fight the majority of stuff like you can at lvlv 30-50. You are forced to be sneakier.
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Old April 29, 2010, 05:45   #24
Zikke
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I have found that searching out greater vaults in dlvl 80-99 are pretty much guaranteed to have end-game spellbooks and speed rings. With enough patience and TO, you can have it all a lot faster than hunting down wyrms.

I know some people here will say wyrm hunting is faster, but I have found repeatedly that vault hunting has been more lucrative (and more exhilarating) for me. Just gotta watch that insta-kill thing, and also you gotta know when to fold 'em (i.e. teleport level).

One tip is the pierce a hole in the greater vault, aggravate everything, let them all run out to you, and *Destruct* them all and then go loot the (mostly) empty vault.
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:15   #25
Fendell Orcbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zikke View Post
I have found that searching out greater vaults in dlvl 80-99 are pretty much guaranteed to have end-game spellbooks and speed rings. With enough patience and TO, you can have it all a lot faster than hunting down wyrms.

I know some people here will say wyrm hunting is faster, but I have found repeatedly that vault hunting has been more lucrative (and more exhilarating) for me. Just gotta watch that insta-kill thing, and also you gotta know when to fold 'em (i.e. teleport level).

One tip is the pierce a hole in the greater vault, aggravate everything, let them all run out to you, and *Destruct* them all and then go loot the (mostly) empty vault.
I have 901 hp, what could insta kill me if I'm double resisting stuff? And I'd like to believe that I know when to run or TO stuff. Generally if I'm not doing much damage and they are hurting me I run. Hell, I wouldn't even go into a dragon pit. Not yet anyway.

Also does anyone know how much damage mana bolts and storms do?

Again thanks for the advice: )
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:36   #26
Derakon
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At this point the only things that can kill you from full health in one turn are unresisted basic elements (at 1600 damage per shot), or double moves (e.g. 2x nether breath = up to 940 damage with resists or 1100 without).

Manastorms do 10d10 + mlvl*5 damage, meaning up to 600 damage in Morgoth's case. Darkness storms are the same, but of course you can resist darkness. Mana bolts do 1d(mlvl*7/2) + 50 damage, or up to 400 damage for Morgoth. This is from monster/constants.h (the damcalc function referred to there is defined in init1.c).

Other notes: nether bolts are 5d5 + mlvl*3/2 + 30. (Acid, electricity, fire, cold) bolts are (7, 4, 9, 6)d8 + mlvl/3, balls are 1d(mlvl * 3, mlvl * 3/2, mlvl * 7/2, mlvl * 3/2) + (15, 8, 10, 10). Fireballs are thus the most dangerous, followed by acid balls, then electricity balls and cold balls as distant third and fourth. The four "cause wounds" spells are 3d8, 8d8, 10d15, and 15d15 each (with the latter also adding 10d10 to your wound counter). Mind blasting and brain smashing are 8d8 and 12d15. Missiles do 2d6 + mlvl/3. Plasma bolts are 8d7 + mlvl/10. And I think that's about enough of that.

Last edited by Derakon; April 29, 2010 at 07:41.
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:38   #27
Pete Mack
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@Powerdiver, etc:
Create Stairs is also a cheap version of ?Teleport Level. This is my primary use case for the spell, although it's less useful now that !CCW scales with damage. (With unlimited healing, Create Doors becomes the guaranteed escape of choice.)

Prior to a risky fight, set up a stairwell down. If the fight goes badly, go on to the next level. If it doesn't, kill the guy and gather the loot.

Last edited by Pete Mack; April 29, 2010 at 08:00.
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Old April 29, 2010, 07:57   #28
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You can already handle a green dragon pit with double resist poison. (You can handle black dragon pits too, but they damage your gear too much without immunity.)

If you are really desperate for the speed ring/Tenser's, you can stair scum until you detect interesting objects. (With a ranger, you want to carry detect object scrolls or staffs, since the spell is so expensive.) You can also afford to teleport around the level (rather than walk.) With superb stealth, ESP, and double rFire/rCold, there are no monsters that can kill you on teleport; this means you can find all the interesting stuff on a level in very little time.


Otherwise, just be patient. Those things will turn up soon enough; at your current depth you also have a good chance to find Rings of Power, not to mention an endgame quality bow (Lothlorien or Bard.)

Last edited by Pete Mack; April 29, 2010 at 08:08.
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Old April 29, 2010, 09:04   #29
Fendell Orcbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
At this point the only things that can kill you from full health in one turn are unresisted basic elements (at 1600 damage per shot), or double moves (e.g. 2x nether breath = up to 940 damage with resists or 1100 without).

Manastorms do 10d10 + mlvl*5 damage, meaning up to 600 damage in Morgoth's case. Darkness storms are the same, but of course you can resist darkness. Mana bolts do 1d(mlvl*7/2) + 50 damage, or up to 400 damage for Morgoth. This is from monster/constants.h (the damcalc function referred to there is defined in init1.c).

Other notes: nether bolts are 5d5 + mlvl*3/2 + 30. (Acid, electricity, fire, cold) bolts are (7, 4, 9, 6)d8 + mlvl/3, balls are 1d(mlvl * 3, mlvl * 3/2, mlvl * 7/2, mlvl * 3/2) + (15, 8, 10, 10). Fireballs are thus the most dangerous, followed by acid balls, then electricity balls and cold balls as distant third and fourth. The four "cause wounds" spells are 3d8, 8d8, 10d15, and 15d15 each (with the latter also adding 10d10 to your wound counter). Mind blasting and brain smashing are 8d8 and 12d15. Missiles do 2d6 + mlvl/3. Plasma bolts are 8d7 + mlvl/10. And I think that's about enough of that.

Good to know!So I guess I'm pretty safe then as long as I don't let undead summons get me: ) Or uniques that aren't below ther native depth that is...Thanks dude!

P.S. I didn't even know brain blasting and mind blanking did damage.
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Old April 29, 2010, 09:12   #30
Fendell Orcbane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
You can already handle a green dragon pit with double resist poison. (You can handle black dragon pits too, but they damage your gear too much without immunity.)

If you are really desperate for the speed ring/Tenser's, you can stair scum until you detect interesting objects. (With a ranger, you want to carry detect object scrolls or staffs, since the spell is so expensive.) You can also afford to teleport around the level (rather than walk.) With superb stealth, ESP, and double rFire/rCold, there are no monsters that can kill you on teleport; this means you can find all the interesting stuff on a level in very little time.


Otherwise, just be patient. Those things will turn up soon enough; at your current depth you also have a good chance to find Rings of Power, not to mention an endgame quality bow (Lothlorien or Bard.)
An Archlich dropped a +8 ring of Speed! After getting rid of tons of summons and having to use a *Healing* and a healing I managed to finally get it. And two restore mana's to buff and cast a Rune of Protection. A bit costly I admit but what good are a few potions going to do me if I'm dead. I can always find more. Now on to find Tenser's and some better gear. I feel pretty under powered for how far I've managed to go. Plus I hate having to avoid so many fights.
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