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Old June 16, 2011, 21:39   #41
Bahman Rabii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relic View Post
1. I never head back to town just to sell stuff.
Really? That's my main reason for going up to town in sell games. My next two reasons are both more rare: I am almost never forced up because I am out of consumables (my inventory fills with sellables first), and I almost never recall up just to buy gear/books (again, my inventory fills up fast enough).

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Originally Posted by relic View Post
2. I would never pick up a heavy item to sell if it slowed me, (but I may pick it up to bring it to the home if it could become useful.)
Even if you never take a speed penalty, you are still paying for your "cargo capacity" by carrying fewer consumables and less swap gear.

Maybe that's why you never go to town to sell stuff - you are carrying so few consumables (to make room for sellables) that you are constantly going to town to replenish those anyway.

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3. I don't think I ever have chosen a "sellable" item before a "fun and useful" item .
I bet you set a higher bar for "useful" than you would if you were not saving space for loot to sell. In no sell games, minor/situational buffs and attacks are worth carrying and using. In sell games they are not.

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To summarize: To me, selling is a fun and enjoyable part of the game.
To summarize: You and the "no rage" guy have not tried what you are criticizing.
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:01   #42
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
In your selling games, would you carry a scroll of Detect Invisible? Would you use a wand of Confuse Monster, rather than hold it to sell? How many inventory slots are full before you go into the dungeon? In no-selling games, all of my inventory is for items that I'd either want to use at some point, or that I'm waiting on pseudo to ID for me. I can carry tons of niche crap that I'd pretty much squelch right off in a selling game, because I'd get a better return on devoting the inventory slot to something salable.

In selling games, when my pack fills up with vendor trash, I either recall or start ditching the least valuable items so I can fit in more valuable stuff (or the occasional, rare actually usable item). With no-selling, my pack fills far less quickly, even though I've stuffed so many low-odds items in it, because there are far fewer usable items than there are salable items. If it's full, it's full of things that are either currently useful or will be useful in the future, which means it's time to return home to stash some of it in the home.

In short, in no-selling games, you return to town to store items in the home, to replenish consumables, and to check out the Black Market. Selling games have all that plus the need to haul useless stuff back to town to sell. Thus trips to the town will be strictly more common in selling games than in no-selling games. The town is boring. Who wants to go there more often?
As I said, I don't understand. Do you really pick up things for their monetary value in a selling game? Pick up useless stuff to sell? Why? Of course that is boring.

My priorities to pick up are: unidentified items, useful items and potentially useful weapons and armor. For example: Most identified wands, rods and staffs I just leave. I rather pick up an unidentified mushroom than an identified ring of protection, even in an early game.

So, in my games, i do just as you do: store items in the home, to replenish consumables, and to check out the Black Market, plus sell unidentified items.

As for the town being boring, that may be so. But I find it relaxing or de-stressing after an often dangerous trip to the dungeon to return to town. With no town, like in NetHack for instance, the only time to relax would be to save the character and quit the game.

So my point is: a no-selling game may be wonderful, but a selling-game can be fun if you play it the right way.
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:05   #43
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Originally Posted by ChodTheWacko View Post
No-selling doesn't mean you can't sell - it just means you get zero gold for sales.
And, amusingly enough, if you sell an unidentified item and it turns out to be bad, the shopkeeper will still react in anguish--even though he got the item for free!
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:11   #44
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He may get a bulk rate on ID, but that doesn't mean that it's free for him.
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:12   #45
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Originally Posted by Bahman Rabii View Post

To summarize: You and the "no rage" guy have not tried what you are criticizing.
You misunderstand me. I don't criticize a no-selling game. It may possibly be wonderful. I just don't understand the arguments against a selling-game.

Edited and corrected wrong word in bold face.
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:46   #46
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Yup! We'd have to rearrange the stores again so that everything fitted in 8 buildings but that's fine.
We have a hard-coded limit of eight buildings??
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:49   #47
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I think he was talking about the town layout, which is roughly a 4x2 grid of buildings.
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:51   #48
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Originally Posted by relic View Post
I just don't understand the arguments against a selling-game.
I'll boil them down for you: most players spend time/effort dealing with items they only intend sell instead of playing other parts of the game they prefer more.
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:56   #49
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This is a great idea!

One problem I see though is that new players will not realise it's there...
My thought was to do something a little different, which wouldn't require saving and loading of kit. (Well actually it wasn't my idea, apparently it was in EyAngband). Instead it was to provide a list of possible kits at the end of character creation, showing the amount of gold remaining. I was imagining up to half a dozen could be available for any given class. So for example a mage might choose from:

1. book 1, sling, 20 iron shots, 5 rations, 3 torches, ?WoR

2. book 1, dagger, soft leather, wicker shield, 5 rations, 3 torches, ?WoR

3. book 1, book 2, 5 rations, 3 torches, 5 !CSW

4. book 1, book 2, main gauche, ?WoR, ?satisfy

... etc. It occurs to me that this would combine well with the load/save idea: we could provide a small number of basic kits, but players could add kits of their own which they prefer ...
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Old June 16, 2011, 22:56   #50
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I think he was talking about the town layout, which is roughly a 4x2 grid of buildings.
But there's no reason why it has to be, surely?
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