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Old December 28, 2015, 16:21   #1
gglibertine
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Any variants that don't restrict your options by class?

I've been turning over an idea in my head for the last couple of days now, and I'm wondering if any of the variants support anything like it. (I did a quick browse through the list but nothing jumped out at me.)

The way I imagine it, you'd select a race as in Angband, balance your stats to your satisfaction, and be able to buy whatever kinds of weapons, tools, spellbooks, etc. you wanted in the town. How well you could use any of it, however, would depend on your experiences in the dungeon -- both via practice and by luck. You'd need minimum stats to be able to do certain things, of course -- if you're too weak you can't swing a sword, if you're too stupid you can't cast spells -- but there would be plenty of opportunities to improve your stats via magic, experience, or just a really lucky roll on an attempt to do something. (I really like the idea, for example, of desperately trying something you shouldn't be able to do, rolling exceptionally well, and gaining a skill or increasing a stat as a result.)

You might start out with the intent to become a particular "class", but get sidetracked by finding items that lead you down another path. You might start out as a generalist and take what comes, but find yourself becoming increasingly specialized as a result of your finds. Anyone could try to learn magic, anyone could try to fight, etc., and with luck you might either become very powerful very quickly or struggle along, laboriously making small gains here and there in terms of equipment, stats, magic items, etc.

Are there any variants that do anything like this at all?
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Old December 28, 2015, 16:58   #2
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Download SAngband ("Skills Angband"). It doesn't make you better via practice, but you can spend your experience points on improving your skills. Sil has a similar mechanic. I believe PosChengband has the "improve via practice" system for weapons skill, though you're still heavily biased by the class you chose to play as.
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Old December 28, 2015, 17:56   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Download SAngband ("Skills Angband"). It doesn't make you better via practice, but you can spend your experience points on improving your skills. Sil has a similar mechanic. I believe PosChengband has the "improve via practice" system for weapons skill, though you're still heavily biased by the class you chose to play as.
Thanks! I tried Sil but found the interface extremely confusing. Too much color and flashing numbers. I'll try SAngband and see how I like it.
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Old December 28, 2015, 17:59   #4
Regalia
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Nothing (among Angband variants) really comes to mind.

In PosCheng you can kind of go possessor and then pick a body you want. Or a wild talent for random skills. I guess that's not really what you're looking for.

Like Derakon mentioned, there are variants that let you invest points into skills (a few more: tome, tome.net, furyband and so on) but not much luck factor in it (well, I guess fumblefingers in tome).
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Old December 28, 2015, 18:17   #5
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I don't think Sangband does quite what you want, since it does place restrictions on spellcasting. When you first learn magic, you have to choose a realm (sorcery, necromancy, holy or nature magic) and then you can't cast spells from the other realms.

Another one you might like to try is Ironband - there are no classes or "skills" as such, but any character can fight, cast spells etc. I believe how good you are at things depends on your race and stats (you get some control over which stats to level up but there is also a lot of randomness.)

Apart from that, there's always Crawl...
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Old December 28, 2015, 19:16   #6
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Originally Posted by NotMorgoth View Post
I don't think Sangband does quite what you want, since it does place restrictions on spellcasting. When you first learn magic, you have to choose a realm (sorcery, necromancy, holy or nature magic) and then you can't cast spells from the other realms.

Another one you might like to try is Ironband - there are no classes or "skills" as such, but any character can fight, cast spells etc. I believe how good you are at things depends on your race and stats (you get some control over which stats to level up but there is also a lot of randomness.)

Apart from that, there's always Crawl...
Well, I'm OK with having to make choices at various points. I've been playing with SAngband for an hour or two now, but mostly just wrestling with the preferences trying to get the display anywhere near the way I want it. Does every variant REALLY need to completely change the way you set options? Why can't I resize the stupid window? Everything should work exactly the way I want it to all the time, like magic!

TBH what I'm really after is mostly a lack of classes, so Ironman might work for me -- but I'm not so hot on the not being able to go back to the town aspect. I'll give that a shot too, though.

I'm wondering now how hard it would be to simply remove classes from Vanilla entirely without going to the trouble of changing other things. I understand libraries and config files, but actual code is beyond me, and I'm guessing there would need to be changes to the code.
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Old December 28, 2015, 19:18   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gglibertine View Post
I'm wondering now how hard it would be to simply remove classes from Vanilla entirely without going to the trouble of changing other things. I understand libraries and config files, but actual code is beyond me, and I'm guessing there would need to be changes to the code.
I wouldn't be surprised if you could make a jack-of-all-trades class in Vanilla 4.x without modifying any code, just by modifying edit files. But making it balanced, especially as it levels up and gains access to more spells, would be difficult. Maybe you're not worried about balance though.
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Old December 29, 2015, 11:44   #8
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if you could make a jack-of-all-trades class in Vanilla 4.x without modifying any code, just by modifying edit files. But making it balanced, especially as it levels up and gains access to more spells, would be difficult. Maybe you're not worried about balance though.
Balance isn't really my biggest concern, no. I just like to see what happens!
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Old December 29, 2015, 15:43   #9
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I dont understand what this is about. Would this be a solution, and if not, why:

Take vanilla. Make a birth option, "remove all classes except paladin." Now you can only play a paladin and will never be restricted by class.
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Old December 29, 2015, 16:09   #10
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I made a quick stab at modifying 4.x to add a class that could cast both holy and divine magic, since that's the big limitation on class abilities. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be possible. It seems like a given class can only have one 'magic' line in their definition, which is restricted to either arcane or holy magic (those concepts being hardcoded into the game). So you can't have a class that uses INT to cast mage spells and WIS to cast priest spells. I also tried just copying the spell entries from the Mage class into the Priest class (all of the 'book', 'spell', 'effect', etc. entries) so that they could cast mage spells while using WIS as their cast stat, and the game segfaults on launch; see this crash log.

Oh well.
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