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Old February 5, 2010, 19:32   #1
PowerDiver
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variant level wishlist

So long as it's in vogue to publish wishlists, here are my desires that are too big to consider putting as feature requests. At the moment, they are probably all firmly in variant territory, but perhaps attitudes will change over time.

In no particular order:

(1) Rune based system, no pseudo or id spell at all
(2) No dungeon alteration except earthquake and destruction -- remove stair and door creation, stone2mud, diggers etc
(3) Random spellbooks, usable by all classes except warriors [though some spells unavailable or slightly differentiated by class]
(4) No artificing -- remove enchant item spells from books and scrolls
(5) Slay-specific ESP & Aggr -- any item with x3 slay ESP's what it slays, and any x5 slay also aggravates what it slays -- all other aggravation disallowed
(6) Remove monster attributes EVIL and ANIMAL/NATURAL entirely.
(7) No selling ever, except for refunds for things bought on current town visit
(8) Fixed unlimited store contents, except
(9) Fixed limited black market content
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Old February 5, 2010, 20:04   #2
konijn_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
So long as it's in vogue to publish wishlists, here are my desires that are too big to consider putting as feature requests. At the moment, they are probably all firmly in variant territory, but perhaps attitudes will change over time.

In no particular order:

(1) Rune based system, no pseudo or id spell at all
(2) No dungeon alteration except earthquake and destruction -- remove stair and door creation, stone2mud, diggers etc
(3) Random spellbooks, usable by all classes except warriors [though some spells unavailable or slightly differentiated by class]
(4) No artificing -- remove enchant item spells from books and scrolls
(5) Slay-specific ESP & Aggr -- any item with x3 slay ESP's what it slays, and any x5 slay also aggravates what it slays -- all other aggravation disallowed
(6) Remove monster attributes EVIL and ANIMAL/NATURAL entirely.
(7) No selling ever, except for refunds for things bought on current town visit
(8) Fixed unlimited store contents, except
(9) Fixed limited black market content
HardCoreBand ?

This could be done as a 7drl, the rune based system would need to be fleshed out. I would almost remove town in this game, just allow shops to appear as dungeon buildings.

T.
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Old February 5, 2010, 23:12   #3
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A lot of this stuff sounds cool to me, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
(1) Rune based system, no pseudo or id spell at all
Are there variants that do rune-based ID well? The more I think about it, the more it sounds really awesome - I like identifying flavors, and rune-based systems make equipment identification like flavor discovery.

I'm mostly neutral to 2 and 4, but 3 and 5 sound pretty interesting. I think 7-9 are good, but I know some people don't agree. What's the reason for removing evil and animal?

I like the idea konijn_ mentions, that is removing the town (or only allowing its use before descending into the dungeon) and introducing dungeon shops.
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Old February 5, 2010, 23:42   #4
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2- I'll agree that StM and Diggers should be slated for removal (although it's been awhile since I've read up on your specific reasons), simply because they're tedious. Ditto stair creation because it's a free escape. Doors? Neutral. I'd be interested in beam and ball spells that cause damage and destroy walls.

6- Because they're catch-alls? I'd take it a step further and replace slays & brands with a comprehensive roshambo of elemental resists and vulnerabilities.

Not sure what you mean by 9, but I agree with everything else.
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Old February 6, 2010, 00:05   #5
PowerDiver
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Originally Posted by Marble Dice View Post
A lot of this stuff sounds cool to me, too.


Are there variants that do rune-based ID well? The more I think about it, the more it sounds really awesome - I like identifying flavors, and rune-based systems make equipment identification like flavor discovery.

I'm mostly neutral to 2 and 4, but 3 and 5 sound pretty interesting. I think 7-9 are good, but I know some people don't agree. What's the reason for removing evil and animal?

I like the idea konijn_ mentions, that is removing the town (or only allowing its use before descending into the dungeon) and introducing dungeon shops.

I implemented runes a couple years back, may have distributed it to a handful of people, but know of it in no variants.

Evil and animal are too generic. How is a rogue in any way the same as a basilisk? Evil is just what you call your enemies, and the distinction of natural vs unnatural makes no sense to me. Are 20th generation descendants of genetically engineered species natural? Bah. If you eliminate them, then all slays can provide slay based ESP.

I've read that the town is what makes angband itself. I would really miss the home, and the ability to resupply sundries. If you want no town, just play ironman. Why remove it? In fact, a few times I have considered playing no stores, but I would still want the home even without stores so I stop considering pretty quickly.

@jonker A fixed black market might contain 1 mushroom of vigor, 1 very pricy ring of FA, and a few other items you want to provide limited access to in case item distribution is hopelessly cruel, but it would never regenerate anything.
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Old February 6, 2010, 01:15   #6
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Quote:
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I implemented runes a couple years back, may have distributed it to a handful of people, but know of it in no variants.
Do you still have the code ? Care to put it somewhere on the web ?

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Old February 6, 2010, 01:44   #7
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Do you still have the code ? Care to put it somewhere on the web ?

T.
It wasn't good code, and I decided I should have done things quite differently, so I didn't go to any effort to retrieve it when the disk it was on died. At some point after bitflags are properly put into V I'll implement it again.
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Old February 6, 2010, 05:14   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
[LIST][*]
(1) Rune based system, no pseudo or id spell at all
(2) No dungeon alteration except earthquake and destruction -- remove stair and door creation, stone2mud, diggers etc
(3) Random spellbooks, usable by all classes except warriors [though some spells unavailable or slightly differentiated by class]
(4) No artificing -- remove enchant item spells from books and scrolls
(5) Slay-specific ESP & Aggr -- any item with x3 slay ESP's what it slays, and any x5 slay also aggravates what it slays -- all other aggravation disallowed
(6) Remove monster attributes EVIL and ANIMAL/NATURAL entirely.
(7) No selling ever, except for refunds for things bought on current town visit
(8) Fixed unlimited store contents, except
(9) Fixed limited black market content
1) I hope we see this someday
2) agreed, esp for create stair. I;d keep creatures that tunnel, though. Improving the intelligence of enemies that summon would eliminate the problem with the ASC that StM and diggers represent.
3) ehn. don't see the value of this in V, but you did say 'variant-level'
4) YES YES YES
5) Love this idea as well
6) why? I personally like that slay Evil is so badass. To me it's kind of the point of artifact weapons...perhaps it should be restricted to artifacts?
7,8,9) not gonna touch these
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Old February 7, 2010, 20:56   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
So long as it's in vogue to publish wishlists, here are my desires that are too big to consider putting as feature requests. At the moment, they are probably all firmly in variant territory, but perhaps attitudes will change over time.

In no particular order:

(1) Rune based system, no pseudo or id spell at all
(2) No dungeon alteration except earthquake and destruction -- remove stair and door creation, stone2mud, diggers etc
(3) Random spellbooks, usable by all classes except warriors [though some spells unavailable or slightly differentiated by class]
(4) No artificing -- remove enchant item spells from books and scrolls
(5) Slay-specific ESP & Aggr -- any item with x3 slay ESP's what it slays, and any x5 slay also aggravates what it slays -- all other aggravation disallowed
(6) Remove monster attributes EVIL and ANIMAL/NATURAL entirely.
(7) No selling ever, except for refunds for things bought on current town visit
(8) Fixed unlimited store contents, except
(9) Fixed limited black market content
Interesting. IMO only 2 and 3 are really variant territory. 1 is an logical extension of ID-by-use, and will probably happen in some form describable as "rune-based". 4 / 7 / 8 / 9 are all about the "game of shopping" issue, and I share your views on this - I think Takkaria shares quite a few of them too, so I wouldn't be surprised to see 7 & 8 in 3.1.3

That just leaves 5 & 6, which are interesting and implementable. Especially if "aggravation" is reworked to mean slightly less awful than it is now. Sang already has type-specific ESP for demons (priests) and undead (necros), so the code exists.
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