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Old April 24, 2007, 22:27   #11
dionysian
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i started with a version of v that had tiles, and i played quite a bit of ztk back in its day. but i've long since been a purely ascii player, and you couldn't pay me to play with "graphics."
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Old April 26, 2007, 11:04   #12
Chris Wesling
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I guess I'm weird -- I prefer tiles, but only the "old" (8x8 tiles) because I can see more of the level at once with them. (I can see very nearly the whole level on my 19-inch monitor at 1152x864 res.)

The Adam Bolt (16x16) or David Gervais (32x32) tiles look like crap unless I significantly enlarge the tiles, and by the time I get them large enough to appreciate them I'm pretty much back to 24x80 tiles per screen!
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Old April 26, 2007, 11:26   #13
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I use to play with the David Gervais tiles.
The drawback is as Chris said, that you can see only a relatively small area on screen. Because detection-spell only affect the visable area this is really a pain.
I plead to increase the detection-radius at least to the same size that the magic mapping scroll has (magic mapping reveals a slightly larger portion of the dungeon than visable on my screen with big Gervais tiles).
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Old April 26, 2007, 12:39   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondkalb View Post
I plead to increase the detection-radius at least to the same size that the magic mapping scroll has (magic mapping reveals a slightly larger portion of the dungeon than visable on my screen with big Gervais tiles).
The range for Magic Mapping, like that of detection spells, is tied to screen size. The only diffference is that detection is always exactly the screen size, and that magic mappping is always the screen size plus a few lines.

For game balance, detection and magic mapping should have an area of effect independent of the screen size. I once proposed this to Robert Ruehlmann when he still was maintainer; the reason he rejected the proposal was that he felt that this would only work if there's also an automated message informing you when you leave tha area where you have detected. (A position I disagree with, BTW).
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Old April 26, 2007, 12:47   #15
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A fix range for all detection spells would be the best. Since some users seem to be able to see nearly the whole screen the current solution is simply unfair.
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Old April 26, 2007, 13:29   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
For game balance, detection and magic mapping should have an area of effect independent of the screen size. I once proposed this to Robert Ruehlmann when he still was maintainer; the reason he rejected the proposal was that he felt that this would only work if there's also an automated message informing you when you leave tha area where you have detected. (A position I disagree with, BTW).
I have played a variant (forgot the name) where they implemented fixed diameter circle detection, and it was a massive pain. You could never be sure if you're currently in detected area or not. The messages popping up to tell you you're on border were massively annoying. And the visual aid was a poisonously pink background color of dungeon.

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.
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Old April 26, 2007, 13:45   #17
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Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.
A red, green or whatever floor dot?
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Old April 26, 2007, 13:46   #18
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I have played a variant (forgot the name) where they implemented fixed diameter circle detection, and it was a massive pain. You could never be sure if you're currently in detected area or not. The messages popping up to tell you you're on border were massively annoying. And the visual aid was a poisonously pink background color of dungeon.

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.
I'm not convinced that this problem even needs a solution. There are argments against it from both gameplay and from realism.

I always play V with the "center_player" option on. That means that I have no inidication when I leave a detected terrain. This just means that I have to take mental notes of what part of the level I have detected, and if I forget I can choose to either play safe and spend another scroll, or take my chance. My usual strategy is to cast all detection spells directly after each other. Especially the detection of doors leaves a quite visible indication of the affected area, so I can use this to also remember where I have detected traps and monsters. (And if I use magic mapping, I just have to remember to subtract a few grid lines to get the "safe" area for the other detection spells).

Since I believe that gameplay shoould come before realism, I have saved the argument from realism for last, but here it is - suppose that you were actually in a damp and unlit dungeon, swamped with hostile creatues - would you relaly expect to see a red line or a color change on the floor, or to hear a booming voice from above, to warn you that you are now leaving the area you have detected? I know that I'd make sure to carefully keep track of that myself!!
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Old April 26, 2007, 14:13   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pav View Post
I have played a variant (forgot the name) where they implemented fixed diameter circle detection, and it was a massive pain. You could never be sure if you're currently in detected area or not. The messages popping up to tell you you're on border were massively annoying. And the visual aid was a poisonously pink background color of dungeon.

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.
So you don't think the Unangband solution is workable?

It uses a grey 'x' in unknown areas that do not have detect traps cast on them (and detect monsters, if you set an option). You can also set an alert message, if required, but I agree with you that they are annoying.

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Old April 26, 2007, 14:19   #20
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So you don't think the Unangband solution is workable?
It might have been older T.o.M.E. or something, I don't really remember where I seen it. I do remember pink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewdoull View Post
It uses a grey 'x' in unknown areas that do not have detect traps cast on them.
Can we get something more subtle than an avalanche of grey ikses? The colored floor dot like was suggested, but only on the area border, sounds best to me.

Does not fly in variants with terrains, I'm afraid thou.
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