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Old August 9, 2009, 06:49   #21
Pete Mack
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@Nick: I don't see much benefit for this. Making the changes you suggest will pretty much be limited to showing Free Action a little bit early for weapons, and rBlind for Hats of Seeing. That's a really minimal benefit.
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Old August 9, 2009, 11:00   #22
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Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
@Nick: I don't see much benefit for this. Making the changes you suggest will pretty much be limited to showing Free Action a little bit early for weapons, and rBlind for Hats of Seeing. That's a really minimal benefit.
I'm seeing it largely as a housekeeping thing - if you have something that's obviously a Gondolin weapon, then it gets labelled as such. If that's what you meant - I wasn't quite sure
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Old August 10, 2009, 19:19   #23
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Another way would be that they learn, regardless of whether it is correct or not. So in your boots example, a player who has seen Slow Descent but not Stability, and learns FF, would identify the boots as Slow Descent. Maybe this could be a tentative identification (like in UnAngband). Then when the player learns RNexus, the boots revert to unidentified ego.
Thats what I was thinking, having the pseudo-id or ID-by-use wrong sometimes based on the character's history and personal knowledge. Would make identify seem more real. I wonder how that would actually pan out across numerous games.
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Old August 23, 2009, 01:05   #24
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I'm seeing it largely as a housekeeping thing - if you have something that's obviously a Gondolin weapon, then it gets labelled as such. If that's what you meant - I wasn't quite sure
Did you ever decide what to do for your variant?

There is also the question of how to fix V. Things that are obviously gondolin when you wield them do not currently get marked until you learn a slay.

In V, with the current egos, I think that the following is enough for me to personally figure out any ego, although it is possible I am overlooking something.

(1) learn an ego when you learn any slay or brand
(2) learn an ego when you learn any two flags that affect the player (e.g. not IGNORE_ACID)

The only time a single flag doesn't determine things that comes to mind is for the +int and +str *SLAY egos, and you get the +str differentiated as soon as you have a chance to notice regen. Why not just say "learn any flag, notice the ego", the way that learning any effect learns awareness of a flavor?

When I coded the current scheme, I was worried about learning FF on boots or seeing blessed with SI on a weapon, but given the current V paradigm that when you have learned all flags you get the ego, those cases are already covered so there is no point worrying about them.
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Old August 23, 2009, 03:22   #25
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Did you ever decide what to do for your variant?
I'm planning to have ID-by-use in some form in 1.1. I'll probably base it on the V system, but there are complications because there's a lot more randomness of egos in FA.

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In V, with the current egos, I think that the following is enough for me to personally figure out any ego, although it is possible I am overlooking something.

(1) learn an ego when you learn any slay or brand
(2) learn an ego when you learn any two flags that affect the player (e.g. not IGNORE_ACID)
This sounds reasonable to me.
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Old August 23, 2009, 20:59   #26
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The only time a single flag doesn't determine things that comes to mind is for the +int and +str *SLAY egos,
For those keeping track, there is one more ambiguous ego situation. Hats with an int bonus could be either intelligence or magi.
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Old August 23, 2009, 23:13   #27
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For those keeping track, there is one more ambiguous ego situation. Hats with an int bonus could be either intelligence or magi.
Crowns with an int bonus could be either one. Ordinary hats, no. Anyway, Magi is pretty obvious, between the ability and RBase.
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Old August 23, 2009, 23:24   #28
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Anyway, Magi is pretty obvious, between the ability and RBase.
It's not obvious until you learn the second flag. Most egos are obvious after a single flag.

The question is whether to require learning 2 flags to notice an ego, which is annoying for wisdom or beauty or elvenkind, or to allow noticing with a single flag which e.g. gives away int vs magi on wield.
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Old August 24, 2009, 17:58   #29
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Identify by use isn't really my style of play, since I've been conditioned since Moria not to wield anything I haven't spent an identify scroll on... and I don't play Ironman. However I just noticed that the following "hint" messages seem to be out of order when changing weapons:

You were wielding The Lucern Hammer 'Turmil' (2d5) (+10,+6) [+8] (+4) (s).
It coats itself in ice!
It glows!
You are wielding a Rapier (1d6) {special} (a).
You do not feel comfortable with your weapon.


"It" above appears to be referring to the former weapon, not the one just wielded. I think these hints should appear after the "You are wielding" message.
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Old August 24, 2009, 20:08   #30
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Identify by use isn't really my style of play, since I've been conditioned since Moria not to wield anything I haven't spent an identify scroll on.

Try it, you'll like it Just keep some remove curse scrolls handy. It's certainly not as big a deal as before and fun to watch items get slowly identified when you hit different monsters.
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