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Old February 12, 2013, 09:19   #1
bron
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sil 1.1.1: random thoughts

I (finally) won my Sil 1.1.1 game. Here are some random thoughts and observations I gleaned along the way:

I tried a build where I saved experience points by smithing alternatives: +2 Accuracy rings, Helm of Lore Mastery, a Sharp weapon. This actually worked pretty well right up to the throne room, where I hit an interesting snag: I could not get the second silmaril out of the crown without using a sharp weapon, but the crown would break my sharp weapon if I used it. So I needed to have smithed *two* sharp weapons. I'll remember that if I ever try that build again.

Polearms are a lot of fun to play, but despite a great deal of practice, they seem inferior to standard swords or axes. I think a Glaive should be a 2d10 weapon, just as Halberds were in the original release. They would still be inferior, but it would be better. [Admittedly, smithing one with a brand on it is then pretty powerful, but that is already pretty powerful.]

I like the change to make the damage-die-sides/strength/weight calculation be consistent for all weapon types. It seems to me that all 2-handed weapons ought to get an across-the-board addition of one damage side to their base to differentiate them more from hand-and-a-half weapons and to give a solid reason to prefer them.

I think the skill "Heavy Armor Use" should be changed. The current "1dX" protection just isn't enough to make it worthwhile. Instead, I think it should reduce the evasion penalty of armor by one, per point of strength. This makes more sense to me: high strength allows one to not be so encumbered by the armor, and this "Evasion" ability would then be about evasion, not protection.

It would be nice to be able to trade the starting stat points for experience points. I've had a couple of melee builds where I wind up with one extra stat point, which I throw into Grace because I can't do anything else with it. It would be nice to have the option of eating the stat point and starting with an extra 1000 experience. Indeed, I envision starting with 18,000 experience, and being able to buy stat points at 1000 experience apiece, up to a maximum of 13 points. Much the way Vanilla Angband does with stat points and starting gold.
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Old February 12, 2013, 16:09   #2
Scatha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bron View Post
Polearms are a lot of fun to play, but despite a great deal of practice, they seem inferior to standard swords or axes. I think a Glaive should be a 2d10 weapon, just as Halberds were in the original release. They would still be inferior, but it would be better. [Admittedly, smithing one with a brand on it is then pretty powerful, but that is already pretty powerful.]
I replied to this in your other thread; I'd be happy to hear more about why you think they're weak.

Quote:
I like the change to make the damage-die-sides/strength/weight calculation be consistent for all weapon types. It seems to me that all 2-handed weapons ought to get an across-the-board addition of one damage side to their base to differentiate them more from hand-and-a-half weapons and to give a solid reason to prefer them.
I'm really not so keen on this idea. There already is a reason to prefer them: the weight! It becomes a neat emergent feature of the system that bastard swords are just small two-handed swords (small enough that you can use them 1-handed), and the different weights already give different characters reasons to prefer one or the other. The other hand-and-a-half weapons don't have exact counterparts in 1 or 2-handed forms. There was actually a loss here in simplifying the weight requirements, in that there's less push to the heavy weapons than there used to be. However the weapons are pretty finely balanced against each other at the moment, and a blanket +1 damage sides is really quite a large increase which would throw the balancing off.

Quote:
I think the skill "Heavy Armor Use" should be changed. The current "1dX" protection just isn't enough to make it worthwhile. Instead, I think it should reduce the evasion penalty of armor by one, per point of strength. This makes more sense to me: high strength allows one to not be so encumbered by the armor, and this "Evasion" ability would then be about evasion, not protection.
There is something to be said for high Strength offsetting penalties on armour or weapons. This would most naturally be built into your basic rules, but we could do it as an ability like this. I'm not sure it's better than the current one, though. We like the mini-game of searching for the heaviest armour possible (where normally heavier armour with the same stats is just worse), and we want some abilities to help support a protection-based archetype. We think the ability is good enough for this archetype! But the numbers could be tweaked if this is false.

Quote:
It would be nice to be able to trade the starting stat points for experience points. I've had a couple of melee builds where I wind up with one extra stat point, which I throw into Grace because I can't do anything else with it. It would be nice to have the option of eating the stat point and starting with an extra 1000 experience. Indeed, I envision starting with 18,000 experience, and being able to buy stat points at 1000 experience apiece, up to a maximum of 13 points. Much the way Vanilla Angband does with stat points and starting gold.
This isn't terrible for gameplay (though 1,000 is, I think, rather too much), but I find it's a little too flavour-breaking for me to like. Moreover, I just don't think it's necessary! We chose the number 13 quite deliberately, because it gives a lot of different possible spends. Indeed it's quite hard to end up with a point left over and nothing that you can spend it on (getting an extra point of Grace is still helpful for Melee builds for the Will and Perception): putting 2 into everything is the only way I know.

You have the following possible stat allocations, on top of your Race/House bonuses:
4200
4111
3310
3221
2222 (1 left over)

And of course where the numbers are unequal you can choose which stat is which. This gives quite a bit of variety! It's surprising that you end up putting a point in Grace if you really don't value it, as by not spending you could move a point from your third-favourite stat to your second-favourite (4111 to 4200 or 3221 to 3310).
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Old February 13, 2013, 00:37   #3
bron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scatha View Post
a blanket +1 damage sides is really quite a large increase
Agreed; it's too much. I was just throwing the idea out there.

Quote:
There is something to be said for high Strength offsetting penalties on armour or weapons. This would most naturally be built into your basic rules, but we could do it as an ability
I'd be all for making it be an intrinsic feature of the game, rather than an ability you need to pay for. But that would also be a large change, and would make strength be more valuable. This is not a bad thing IMHO.

Quote:
want some abilities to help support a protection-based archetype. We think the ability is good enough for this archetype! But the numbers could be tweaked
I just don't personally find 1dX to be enough. Maybe change it to Xd1 ? On average, this is only a little bit better (e.g. 1d3 is average two, while 3d1 is three), but I think that the guaranteed minimum makes it significantly more valuable. I doubt that even that change would make me actually take it, but I'd certainly think about it harder.

Quote:
by not spending you could move a point from your third-favourite stat to your second-favourite
True, but I build a character more along the lines of "I want someone with a strength of at least 2, and at least 41 hit points, and as much dexterity as I can get", and I often have a stat point "left over". 1000 exp. may be a bit generous; it was just a nice round number.
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