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Old July 9, 2011, 21:01   #11
jens
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The benefit comes when you grow accustomed to this change, and can run more smoothly and with fewer key presses
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Old July 9, 2011, 21:06   #12
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But I don't want to run smoothly with fewer keypresses. I want to be prevented from running past the border of my trap detection. As Eddie noted, there's plenty of situations in which running stops for trivial reasons and you need to restart it, to the point where if I don't see anything obvious in the area that stops the running (and the trap detection border is not always obvious) then I'll reflexively start running again.

Now if every single running disturbance were non-trivial, which I doubt is achievable, then every time running stopped I'd want to take a look around and figure out why. But that's not the case currently. Thus why this change is an anti-feature.
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Old July 9, 2011, 21:19   #13
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
I'll often keep hitting shift-move several times before realizing that the reason I'm not running is because I'm at the edge of detection.
Pay more attention to what you're doing is the obvious answer. If traps were more dangerous, I guess you would be be more careful, but they're not. There is an indicator in the status area that changes color (from green to yellow) when you're on the border, right? Angband does interrupt your running, right? What do you want, a pop-up window and an audible alarm*.

In any case, stumbling into a trap, even a deadly trap, even once in a while because you can't be bothered to pay attention to what you're doing, even while nanny-Angband tries to warn you, is perfectly poetic justice.

* Honestly, I think sound effects would be put to better use as an informative tool, rather than the current flavor-less implementation.
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Old July 9, 2011, 21:27   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
But I don't want to run smoothly with fewer keypresses. I want to be prevented from running past the border of my trap detection. As Eddie noted, there's plenty of situations in which running stops for trivial reasons and you need to restart it, to the point where if I don't see anything obvious in the area that stops the running (and the trap detection border is not always obvious) then I'll reflexively start running again.

Now if every single running disturbance were non-trivial, which I doubt is achievable, then every time running stopped I'd want to take a look around and figure out why. But that's not the case currently. Thus why this change is an anti-feature.
Interesting that this is generating debate now. This change was made seven months ago, right around the release of 3.2.0 (I'm not sure if it made 3.2.0 - trac says not but could be wrong.)

I originally had the same view as Eddie and Derakon (and the OP). But takkaria felt it was more logical behaviour that the DTrap border stops you running once rather than infinitely.

I rather share the view that when d_m and gabe make traps more deadly (sorry, interesting), everyone will do rather less running and this debate will go away ... (mwa-ha-ha ...)
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Old July 10, 2011, 01:19   #15
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It's not that traps themselves aren't dangerous enough. They certainly can be if you're unlucky. It's that there's a half million other things that disturb running while not being dangerous, and I can't always tell if I'm being disturbed by one of those or by the trap detection border.

Functionally the argument being put forth by some of you is "You're playing wrong, stop that and this will stop being a problem for you." That strikes me as a bit unkind.
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Old July 10, 2011, 02:01   #16
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Functionally the argument being put forth by some of you is "You're playing wrong, stop that and this will stop being a problem for you." That strikes me as a bit unkind.
Make it an option.

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Old July 10, 2011, 09:48   #17
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
It's not that traps themselves aren't dangerous enough. They certainly can be if you're unlucky. It's that there's a half million other things that disturb running while not being dangerous, and I can't always tell if I'm being disturbed by one of those or by the trap detection border.
Ok, but the solution to this is not to revert the behaviour on the trap detection border, it's to fix the unnecessary disturbances, right? I've created ticket #1496 for this.
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Old July 10, 2011, 11:04   #18
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So, lets compile a list of unnecessary disturbances:

- buried treasure. I am guessing that this should be very easy to fix, but there might be differences in opinion...

- non branch (i.e. some structure in the corridor which the current running code stops to let you explore, but you can see that it's a dead end, see included image). Should possibly limit this to structures that are just one step deep. This will probably be much harder to fix, but I'm guessing less of an issue to discuss (the only possible thing I can think of is that someone might want to search for hidden doors there, but these spaces are very unlikely to contain any)

- a fast monster steps in and out of LOS without ever being displayed. Probably a bit difficult, and might need discussion.

Any more you can think about?
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Old July 10, 2011, 11:16   #19
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Found another:

- open door. i.e. in a corridor were there is no other reason to stop, but stops to give the player a possibilty to interact with the door. Should be easy to implement, but might warrant discusssion. Here there is a high probability of finding hidden doors, so stopping to search for them might be a good idea. Other possibility is that you want to close the door to save you from something, but then there will most likely be other things stopping you from running.
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Old July 10, 2011, 15:24   #20
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- buried treasure. I am guessing that this should be very easy to fix, but there might be differences in opinion...
I use this option (is it optional?), but could cope with it's loss. A hide buried treasure option might be better. In this way someone interested in mining will stop at treasure veins and those who aren't don't even have to look at them.

What I would like to see is an option to stop (10') before reaching a corner so one can detect or take other action before stepping into LOS a blind corridor. Admittedly, this would be a lot of disturbances and isn't always a desired behavior (depending on character strength/dungeon level), so if anything if should be toggleable/optional. Currently, I spend a lot of time single-step walking around the dungeon.
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