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Old August 16, 2016, 23:28   #1
Holy_Rage
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Beginner questions: abilities and kemenrauko

Hello there,

I have been playing Sil for the last month or so and have been able to reach 600'-650' with a heavy melee build. The Kemenrauko and the whispering shadows have by far claimed most of my warriors. Could you please give me an idea of what kind of abilities a heavy meleer/protection-focusing character should have, as well as how to deal with those #$#&#*$& cat warriors and kemenrauko? I am not sure I even understand their mechanics/way of behaving.

P.S. Is a total of +17/18 melee and evasion enough for that depth? If so, why Sapphire Serpents are SO difficult to hit?

Thank you for your patience
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Old August 17, 2016, 02:02   #2
T-Mick
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Serpents have very high protection, keep a big-die (or sharp) weapon around to deal with them.

Same thing with Kemenraukar. If you're running low evasion, it may be better to avoid them. They hit hard, and the quakes mess up tactics more often than not. If you take Rauko-Bane in the perception tree around this point, you'll be wrecking demons late-game. Great ability.

All cats have very low will, that's the best approach to them. Staves of Majesty and slumber, Song of Elbereth, Lorien, and Mastery are all good methods. Don't get surrounded. Critical Resistance and Crowd Fighting are very important.

I don't remember what Whispering Shadows do ... As a general rule, wights and ghost-things don't chase you (except for the ones that just hang around. Grotesques?). If you see a Shadow, turn the corner.

Crit Resist and Heavy Armour Use are useful for protection-characters. Hardiness is neat too, but I never have enough Will to use it. HallucinatingMushroom on the ladder likes to play this type of build, check his stuff.

Other skills:

Charge + Flanking interact in a really cool way. Add knockback for fun.

Opportunist is awesome. Worth dipping into stealth for just this.

Riposte is fun.

Focused Attack + Concentration can make some fun times if you pump perception. Either HM or Hugo used to do this fairly often.

Bane. Bane is great. Wolf-Bane, Rauko-Bane, whatever.

Plenty of songs are cool and useful. Staying will increase protection, but I've never used it. Honestly, I'm a huge fan of Elbereth. It doesn't get much love, but you can use it offensively to chase away crowds you don't want to deal with. Just sing it near the stairs. If you use it as an escape, start singing it early.

Have you ever played a pacifist? You can win without ever striking a monster. Super fun, IMO.

Last edited by T-Mick; August 17, 2016 at 02:13.
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Old August 17, 2016, 04:50   #3
seraph
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shadows are different than whispering shadows.

whispering shadows breed more of themselves and cause darkness, so you need light to see them. inner light helps, final rest weapons add a damage die and give you more light against them. drop any lesser jewels, feanorian lamps and excess glowing weapons and they will glow on the ground. if the room is innately dark use a staff light (multiple uses don't stack). if there are too many, you won't be able to see them. just leave and close the door behind you.

majesty and/or elbereth can help with cats. you may have noticed that they can use exchange places. this forces you to fight while surrounded. crowd fighting and critical resistance are great. using fear can keep them off your back.

song of sharpness is great for kemenraukar and serpents, and anything else with high protection.

i disagree on riposte for a heavy weapon/armor character. evasion penalties and weapon weight really hinder it. everything else looks good. power is good too.
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Old August 17, 2016, 05:09   #4
wobbly
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Kemenrauko: These guys have critical resist (same mechanic as the will tree). If you're using a light weapon & not getting through have a look if you're carrying a mattock. If you've got the str they are not that hard to hit. Otherwise everything T-mick said. Oh & horns of blasting work too, but noisy.

Whispering shadows: Very annoying for high protection. Besides hitting through armour, they breed fast if your stealth is low. Everything seraph said plus herbs of rage if you get caught out. Consider leaving the level or diving past if they get too bad.

Cats: The most amusing way is to take exchange places & riposte but you'll need more evasion. For high protection if you can get your will to 20 (song of staying, helms of defiance etc.) & have critical resist/crowd fighting they stop being a problem.

Serpents: Sharpness or a big weapon or high crits on a polearm. Keep in mind they can't open doors.
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Old August 24, 2016, 00:47   #5
Holy_Rage
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Thank you all for your replies! Your advice was very sound indeed and looking at the ladder definitely made me a better player. Oh dear, what a brutally magnificent game this proves to be! Keeping in mind my initial idea of making a melee winner, I managed to make it to the throne room, got a silmaril but sadly died on the way out... it looks like the ascent with V on my back is going to be a horrible affair... so how can I make it to the exit without getting mauled by V or how could I kill V so I will enjoy a less stressful ascent?

Any other comments are most welcome. Posting after having just died on the way to the exit feels cathartic I must say!

My character's dump was as follows:

Code:
[Sil 1.3.0 Character Dump]

 Name   Nirda         Age    2,935       Str   9 =  3  +1      +5
 Sex    Male          Height  5'11       Dex   7 =  4  +1      +2
 Race   Noldor        Weight   151       Con   5 =  4          +1
 House  Feanor                           Gra   4 =  3  +2      -1

 Game Turn   27,360   Melee (+30,2d13)   Melee       30 = 24  +7  -2  +1
 Exp Pool     1,694   Bows   (+6,1d11)   Archery      6 =  0  +7  -2  +1
 Total Exp   75,594   Armor [+22,10-25]  Evasion     22 = 14  +7  +1
 Burden       146.1                      Stealth     -6 =  0  +7  -5  -8
 Max Burden   515.5   Health     -5:49   Perception  11 =  7  +4
 Depth         900'   Voice      23:41   Will        16 =  9  +4  +3
 Min Depth       0'   Song   Sharpness   Smithing    14 =  6  +4  +3  +1
 Light Radius     8                      Song        14 = 10  +4

 You are one of several children of a bard from the house of Feanor.
 You have light grey eyes, straight black hair, and a fair complexion.






  [Last Messages]

> You miss Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
> You hit the Ancient amethyst serpent!
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> The Ancient amethyst serpent flees in terror!
> You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
> You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness!
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness begins a song of binding.
> You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness sings of binding.
> The door slams shut.
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> You hit Morgoth, Lord of Darkness! <2x>
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness sings of durance.
> Morgoth, Lord of Darkness hits you.
> You die.


  [Screenshot]

         
       %%
  %#%%...
  :.V@...
  ####...
      S..
        .


  [Equipment]

a) a Longsword of Fury (+0,2d6) [+1] 3.0 lb
   It enrages nearby creatures.  It grants you the ability: 
   Whirlwind Attack.  
b) a Dragon-horn Bow of Nargothrond (+0,1d9) 2.0 lb
   It slays dragons and raukar.  It can shoot arrows 16 squares
   (with your current strength).
c) an Onyx Ring of Strength <+1>
   It increases your strength by 1.  It sustains your strength.  
   
d) an Adamant Ring of Dexterity <+1>
   It increases your dexterity by 1.  It sustains your dexterity.
   
e) The Pearl 'Nimphelos' <+2>
   It increases your grace by 2.  It sustains your grace.  It
   cannot be harmed by the elements.  
f) a Silmaril
   It sustains your grace.  It grants you the ability to see
   invisible creatures.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
g) The Mail Corslet of Durin (-1) [-3,3d3]
   It provides resistance to cold and fire.  It speeds your
   regeneration (which also increases your hunger).  It cannot
   be harmed by the elements.  
h) a Cloak of Protection [+2,1d1]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
i) The Kite Shield of Hador (-1) [+0,1d6]
   It provides resistance to cold and fire.  It cannot be harmed
   by the elements.  
j) The Jewelled Crown of Feanor [+0,1d1] <+3>
   It improves your will and smithing by 3.  It provides
   resistance to fire.  It lights the dungeon around you.  It
   grants you the ability to see invisible creatures, but it
   also enrages nearby creatures.  It cannot be harmed by the
   elements.  
k) a Set of Mithril Gauntlets of Swordplay [+0,1d1]
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It grants you the
   ability: Parry.  
l) a Pair of Greaves of Free Action [+0,1d2]
   It grants you freedom of movement.  
m) The Arrow 'Dailir' (+11)
   It cannot be harmed by the elements.  It can be shot 16
   squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) 12 Arrows of Piercing
   They cut easily through armour.  They can be shot 16 squares
   (with your current strength and bow).


  [Inventory]

a) a Yellow Herb of Rage
b) 2 Grey Herbs of Restoration
c) a Piece of Dark Bread
d) 2 Fragments of Lembas
e) 8 Murky Brown Potions of Orcish Liquor
f) a Sparkling Potion of Clarity
g) 2 Emerald Potions of Healing
h) 7 Brilliant Blue Potions of Slow Poison
i) 8 Green Potions of Quickness
j) a Grey Potion of Elemental Resistance
k) 3 Violet Potions of Strength
l) a Golden Potion of Dexterity
m) an Elm Staff of Revelations (6 charges)
n) a Yew Staff of Recharging (3 charges)
o) 2 Topaz Rings of Protection [+0,1d2]
p) an Amethyst Ring of Venom's End
   It provides resistance to poison.  
q) a Sea Shell Amulet of Preservation
   It sustains your constitution and grace.  It reduces your
   need for food.  It cannot be harmed by the elements.  
r) a Feanorian Lamp
s) a Mail Corslet of Resilience (-1) [-2,2d5] <+1>
   It increases your constitution by 1.  It cannot be harmed by
   the elements.  
t) a Great Helm of Defiance [-2,1d1] <+3>
   It improves your will by 3.  It provides resistance to fear.  
   
u) a Dwarf Mask of Clarity [-2,1d2]
   It provides resistance to fire, confusion, stunning, and 
   hallucination.  
v) a Longsword of Hador's House (+0,2d7) [+1] 3.0 lb
   It grants you the ability: Follow-Through.  
w) a Mattock (-5,5d2) <+2> 9.0 lb
   It improves your tunneling by 2.  It requires both hands to
   wield it properly.  


  [Notes]

Nirda of the Noldor
Entered Angband on 23 Aug 2016

   Turn     Depth   Note

      0     50 ft   (Power)
      0     50 ft   (Armoursmith)
    641    100 ft   (Artistry)
    774    100 ft   Made Leather Armour [+0,1d5]  8.0 lb
    941    100 ft   Made a Round Shield [+1,1d4]  5.0 lb
  1,093    100 ft   Made a Helm [+0,1d3]  5.0 lb
  1,708    150 ft   Encountered Gorgol, the Butcher
  1,740    150 ft   Slew Gorgol, the Butcher
  5,478    300 ft   Encountered Boldog, the Merciless
  5,544    300 ft   Slew Boldog, the Merciless
  6,290    350 ft   Found The Spear of Boldog (from 300 ft)
  6,371    350 ft   (Hardiness)
  8,340    450 ft   Encountered Othrod, the Orc Lord
  8,378    450 ft   Slew Othrod, the Orc Lord
  9,815    500 ft   (Lore-Keeper)
  9,849    500 ft   Encountered Uldor, the Accursed
  9,852    500 ft   (Lore-Master)
  9,859    500 ft   Found The Round Shield of Glorfindel
 10,109    500 ft   Found The Kite Shield of Hador
 10,367    500 ft   Fell through a false floor
 10,732    550 ft   Encountered Ulfang the Black
 10,980    550 ft   Slew Ulfang the Black
 11,137    550 ft   (Inner Light)
 11,925    550 ft   (Keen Senses)
 13,079    600 ft   (Poison Resistance)
 13,681    600 ft   Encountered Delthaur, Balrog of Terror
 13,721    600 ft   Destroyed Delthaur, Balrog of Terror
 14,001    600 ft   (Rauko-Bane)
 14,202    600 ft   Fell through a false floor
 14,212    650 ft   (Crowd Fighting)
 14,260    600 ft   Encountered Gilim, the Giant of Eruman
 14,661    600 ft   Slew Uldor, the Accursed
 14,815    600 ft   Found The Mail Corslet of Durin
 16,333    650 ft   (Heavy Armour Use)
 16,682    650 ft   Found The Crown of Dark Secrets
 16,738    650 ft   Found The Pearl 'Nimphelos'
 19,401    800 ft   Encountered Belegwath, Balrog of Shadow
 19,422    800 ft   Destroyed Belegwath, Balrog of Shadow
 20,039    800 ft   Found The Jewelled Crown of Feanor
 20,250    800 ft   (Follow-Through)
 20,793    800 ft   Fell through a false floor
 20,838    850 ft   Encountered Tevildo, Prince of Cats
 20,859    850 ft   Slew Tevildo, Prince of Cats
 20,898    850 ft   (Momentum)
 21,494    850 ft   Encountered Turkano, Balrog of the Hosts
 21,504    850 ft   (Strength)
 21,530    850 ft   Destroyed Turkano, Balrog of the Hosts
 22,279    950 ft   (Critical Resistance)
 22,393    950 ft   Encountered Vallach, Balrog of Sudden Flame
 22,421    950 ft   Destroyed Vallach, Balrog of Sudden Flame
 22,700    950 ft   (Song of Slaying)
 22,789    950 ft   Encountered Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves
 22,808    950 ft   Slew Draugluin, Sire of Werewolves
 22,808    950 ft   Found The Wolf-Hame of Draugluin
 22,843    950 ft   Found The Arrow 'Dailir'
 23,990    950 ft   (Song of Sharpness)
 24,839    950 ft   Encountered Shelob, Spider of Darkness
 24,853    950 ft   Slew Shelob, Spider of Darkness
 27,218  1,000 ft   Entered Morgoth's throne room
 27,226  1,000 ft   Encountered Ancalagon the Black
 27,226  1,000 ft   Encountered Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
 27,234  1,000 ft   Encountered Ungoliant, the Gloomweaver
 27,246  1,000 ft   Encountered Gothmog, High Captain of Balrogs
 27,256  1,000 ft   Found The Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth
 27,260  1,000 ft   Destroyed Gothmog, High Captain of Balrogs
 27,279  1,000 ft   Cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown

 27,360    900 ft   Slain by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness.
 27,360    900 ft   Died on 24 August 2016.




  ['Score' 022172640]
Attached Files
File Type: txt Nirda.txt (8.5 KB, 48 views)

Last edited by Holy_Rage; August 24, 2016 at 00:57.
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Old August 24, 2016, 00:59   #6
Holy_Rage
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EDIT: Fixed the formatting of the character dump, looked horrible on the eyes. My apologies for any who beheld it and consequently suffered from it.
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Old August 24, 2016, 04:20   #7
seraph
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two sources of aggro (does this stack?) and -6 stealth probably led morgoth straight to you from across the level. other than that i don't really know much about the the ascent.
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Old August 24, 2016, 08:51   #8
wobbly
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You had enough melee to kill Morgoth so it would of been a matter of getting the damage output & enough consumables to be buffed the whole fight. While a sharpy is ideal you'd probably find if you're hitting 9 str with rage/!str then something like a 4.5lb 3d4 bastard sword wielding 2 handed could be enough.

Anyways heavy armour ascent is 1 of the worst because of the atrocious stealth. I like taking exchange places on heavy armour warriors, expensive but so is being sandwiched between Morgoth & an unrelenting horror.

For an easier ascent 1 of these:
Morgoth dead
high stealth
listen
exchange places
sprinting
_revelation(s)
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Old September 1, 2016, 18:36   #9
phaethon
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The others have already given good advice. Rauko-bane and more light will probably tip the scales to a win. Also, you can drop a jewel or feanorian lamp on the ground (in addition to holding a light source) and it will add to the light level to help you see what's around you (e.g. whispering shadows). Your XP looks a little low for what it could be, and you could try to pick up the pace in going down stairs. Going deeper faster means you'll find more artifacts (they spawn more frequently at lower depths) and get more XP to boost your skills.

Also, you really should have a bastard sword with 5 strength. Your longsword was doing 2d11 (12 damage on average, 22 max). A standard 3d4 bastard sword would do 3d9 (15 on average, 27 max). A fine or enchanted bastard sword would be much better.
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