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Old July 19, 2014, 22:02   #1
Arseface
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New Player Help

I'm not the most experienced Roguelike player, but not exactly a novice.
Something I tend to notice is that there tend to be "benchmark" depths, where you want to have something by a certain point and it'll help you tremendously.

I'm wondering what those are for Sil.

Loremaster seems like it's something that almost everybody will take at some point for the bonus XP, but I don't know what depth to have that by.

Anybody going smithing also seems like they'll want to hit some point to get a specific item that will help a boatload by a certain depth, and I also don't know that is.

And I don't know how far to go with melee/archery/evasion before it becomes wasteful.

I also don't know if I should horde xp early on so that I can adapt to what I find, or commit to a build off the bat and expect to at the very least get by until I get what I need to make it really work.

Can anybody give me the general rundown on difficulty scaling and proper build management? It's hard to grasp for Sil since I'm used to Brogue which is SUPER transparent on how big of a threat enemies pose and why.

Last edited by Arseface; July 20, 2014 at 00:52.
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Old July 20, 2014, 09:51   #2
taptap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arseface View Post
I'm not the most experienced Roguelike player, but not exactly a novice.
Something I tend to notice is that there tend to be "benchmark" depths, where you want to have something by a certain point and it'll help you tremendously.

I'm wondering what those are for Sil.

Loremaster seems like it's something that almost everybody will take at some point for the bonus XP, but I don't know what depth to have that by.

Anybody going smithing also seems like they'll want to hit some point to get a specific item that will help a boatload by a certain depth, and I also don't know that is.

And I don't know how far to go with melee/archery/evasion before it becomes wasteful.

I also don't know if I should horde xp early on so that I can adapt to what I find, or commit to a build off the bat and expect to at the very least get by until I get what I need to make it really work.

Can anybody give me the general rundown on difficulty scaling and proper build management? It's hard to grasp for Sil since I'm used to Brogue which is SUPER transparent on how big of a threat enemies pose and why.
You can play Sil in a lot of different ways and there isn't strictly one skillset required. Difficulty in each depth depends highly on the build chosen and it is entirely different for say an archer (struggles early), a fighter (struggles later) and a singer (brittle, but always awesome). There is a golden road in between committing right away and hoarding xp that is investing xp so that it is not wasted however you specialise later. Say, as a fighter if you take melee and evasion you are never totally wrong, but you will probably want one set of abilities if you find an amazing shortsword and a completely different one if you find an amazing greatsword.

The main benchmarks I see are:

* sufficient light
* sufficient perception and/or keen senses and/or true sight to see "invisibles"
* poison resistance
* fire resistance
* freedom of movement and/or sufficient will to avoid entrancement
and in the end:
* method to get to the crown
* method to get a sil from the crown

Yet, depending on what you are doing, you may not even need all of them.

More melee, archery and evasion is NEVER wasted. (Unless you play a singer.) See: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=15049

(+ Do yourself and everyone interacting with you a favour and change that username.)

Last edited by taptap; July 20, 2014 at 09:57.
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Old July 20, 2014, 22:58   #3
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That list is super helpful, as it points out what will likely tend to be the most prominent threats.

Something that isn't clear from the descriptions in-game. What does sustain mean exactly, and will potions of "insert stat here" restore your stat if it's drained by smithing?
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Old July 20, 2014, 23:26   #4
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Sustain means that you will receive a +10 will bonus to defend against drain on that stat (all non-elemental resistances works that way). Multiple instances are cumulative. Stat potions will restore up to 3 points of a drained stat no matter the source.
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Old July 23, 2014, 20:08   #5
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I've managed to get down to 350ft(oh so impressive) with nothing but Song of Elbereth. I just picked up Song of Mastery and can likely go at enemies with it, but I have no notable equipment and don't know if I should go melee, archery, or stealth.

I'm guessing not stealth as I went Elbereth>Mastery and not Silence>Lorien>Mastery.

Code:
  [Sil 1.2.1 Character Dump]

 Name   Pat Benatar   Age    1,065       Str   2
 Sex    Female        Height   5'8       Dex   3
 Race   Noldor        Weight   153       Con   3
 House  Finarfin                         Gra   6

 Game Turn    1,843   Melee   (+2,2d7)   Melee        2 =  0  +3  -2  +1
 Exp Pool       282   Bows    (+2,2d7)   Archery      2 =  0  +3  -2  +1
 Total Exp    8,382   Armor   [+4,3-9]   Evasion      4 =  0  +3  +1
 Burden        54.8                      Stealth      2 =  0  +3  -1
 Max Burden   144.0   Health     34:34   Perception   7 =  0  +6      +1
 Depth         350'   Voice      59:59   Will         6 =  0  +6
 Min Depth     100'                      Smithing     6 =  0  +6
 Light Radius     2                      Song        17 = 11  +6

 You are the only child of an archer from the house of Finarfin. You
 have light grey eyes, straight golden hair, and a fair complexion.






  [Equipment]

a) a Longsword (+0,2d5) [+1] 2.0 lb
b) a Longbow (+0,2d5) 3.5 lb
   It can shoot arrows 20 squares (with your current strength).
c) (nothing)
d) (nothing)
e) (nothing)
f) a Wooden Torch (with 1665 turns of light)
g) a Robe [+1]
h) (nothing)
i) a Kite Shield (-2) [+0,1d6]
j) a Helm of Brilliance [-1,1d2]
   It lights the dungeon around you.  
k) (nothing)
l) a Pair of Boots [+0,1d1]
m) 98 Arrows
   They can be shot 20 squares (with your current strength and bow).
n) (nothing)
Any tips on how to handle it from here? If I had gotten some sort of artefact by now I'd have gone that route, or even anything of wolf-killing. The lack of solid armor also really hurts.

Oh, and how much damage does falling do? I jump down chasms to escape sure deaths, but I have no idea when falling is a sure death or not.

Last edited by Arseface; July 23, 2014 at 20:23.
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Old July 23, 2014, 20:42   #6
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Now that you have mastery you can practically do whatever you want - no fighting, melee, archery, it combines well with everything as you can hold most enemies in this depth with your current song alone (don't exclusively rely on it against everything though). I would personally go for archery (as this requires only one skill - melee completely without evasion seems more dangerous). This kind of build is pretty rare, especially based on Elbereth - at least on the ladder - so there won't be too much advice from experience of your situation. Some people made items that granted song of mastery early, you may want to check their ladder profiles (scatha and debo had one for sure).

Apart from archery I would get keen senses and listen as soon as possible as they are a guarantee you don't bump into dangerous opponents in a corridor with your song not working and without evasion or armour to speak of.
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Old July 26, 2014, 04:15   #7
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Another benchmark that I've noticed was sorely lacking in the previous list - a way of digging through rubble and walls.
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Old July 26, 2014, 04:31   #8
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Another benchmark that I've noticed was sorely lacking in the previous list - a way of digging through rubble and walls.
Having means of removal of rubble is essential and you WILL need it for the Throne Room. I learned the hard way.
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Old August 9, 2014, 00:45   #9
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I'm at the point where I need to think about Morgoth.

I'm currently doing a loud pacifist run. Singing and running around like a lunatic. I managed to make it to 900ft with 0 kills so far, but I'm hurting for xp and I lack a mattock of wall eating.

How do I get his crown off and how do I get a Silmaril?

I'd rather not hit him since I've only hit a couple things this whole game and they were all on accident. Two wrongs don't make a right, and hitting Morgoth won't solve anything.

I would like a fullish list of how to knock the crown down though for when I do my more unsavory violent runs. Like the mattock of killing everything runs, those are great.
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Old August 9, 2014, 00:59   #10
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That's pretty funny alright. To the best of my knowledge, you'll need to either put V to sleep (without him noticing you) or smack him around a bit for him to drop the crown - making him drop it by cowering in terror before you sounds like a good candidate for an alternative win condition in future versions though.

But anyway, stack up on staffs of slumber, put a few points into stealth and try for the secret corridor leading to the back of the throneroom is what I'd do (remember everything is neutral until V spots you or you perform a hostile action against a monster - Elbereth doesn't count as a hostile action iirc). You'll also need either Angrist or a reasonably high-damage dice weapon with sharpness to get the Silmaril out before V wakes and everything turns hostile. Best of luck!
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