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Old August 5, 2011, 06:23   #11
UglySquirrell
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to OP. I suggested a similar thing. I think my delayed level feelings have made it into 3.3, if not they'll be in 3.4 for sure. The way it works is it sets 100 squares on the level and gives you an item feeling when you've seen some percentage of them (i think 15% works pretty well.) This could keep a rough estimate of the % cleared. However, very few people supported this idea.

To buzzkill. A long time ago I tried playing a game where there was only 1 down staircase per level. I also eliminated ?dd I made ?tl only go up. I also made trap doors suck you up to the previous level, becomes I'm that much of a glutton for punishment. It was fun, although I'm pretty sure some people would hate the 'search for stairs' game.
I love this idea ,the 100 tiles explored one. would make exploring mandatory. And you might be on a level with really ood. Monsters by the time you get the superb/dangerous message. The Stairs idea would be fun too but if you had no detection spells or items, frustrating.
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Old August 5, 2011, 14:17   #12
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This could keep a rough estimate of the % cleared. However, very few people supported this idea.
Some players are very protective of scumming and the things that make scumming possible/profitable. The 'squares' concept, once implemented, could be used to eliminate/discourage all types of scumming. I get it from a player (who enjoys scumming or feel that it's necessary to prevent grinding) perspective. I don't understand why the dev team wouldn't like it. It's clearly an improvement over an arbitrary turn count, or any other idea that I've heard since I've been around here.

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A long time ago I tried playing a game where there was only 1 down staircase per level. I also eliminated ?dd I made ?tl only go up.
I don't want to see anything that severe, just a tweak. If there are 10 staircases per level now, trim that down to 8 and see if anyone notices. If not, then trim it down further. My problem is that I usually find a (down) staircase far too quickly. Sure, I could just pass it by, but better stuff, as well as the end game, lies deeper. It wouldn't hurt anything if getting deep was just a little bit tougher. Right now, it seems the only thing holding @ back is self restraint.
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Old August 5, 2011, 15:54   #13
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I don't want to see anything that severe, just a tweak. If there are 10 staircases per level now, trim that down to 8 and see if anyone notices. If not, then trim it down further. My problem is that I usually find a (down) staircase far too quickly. Sure, I could just pass it by, but better stuff, as well as the end game, lies deeper. It wouldn't hurt anything if getting deep was just a little bit tougher. Right now, it seems the only thing holding @ back is self restraint.
There are only 3-4 down stair cases per level and 1-2 up staircases. There are less staircases for small levels, so some caverns or labyrinths may have only 1 of each.
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Old August 5, 2011, 16:20   #14
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I don't want to see anything that severe, just a tweak. If there are 10 staircases per level now, trim that down to 8 and see if anyone notices. If not, then trim it down further. My problem is that I usually find a (down) staircase far too quickly. Sure, I could just pass it by, but better stuff, as well as the end game, lies deeper. It wouldn't hurt anything if getting deep was just a little bit tougher. Right now, it seems the only thing holding @ back is self restraint.
I would rather see diving discouraged through making the levels harder than through making it take longer to move deeper. The player should be able to quickly dive to the edge of their competence zone, IMO.
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Old August 5, 2011, 18:40   #15
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I would rather see diving discouraged through making the levels harder than through making it take longer to move deeper. The player should be able to quickly dive to the edge of their competence zone, IMO.
I second this motion.
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Old August 5, 2011, 22:32   #16
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I second this motion.
working on it. see for example: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=11629
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Old August 6, 2011, 04:06   #17
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I would rather see diving discouraged through making the levels harder than through making it take longer to move deeper. The player should be able to quickly dive to the edge of their competence zone, IMO.
I agree with this, but it seems to me that you can usually find a staircase very quickly, without much exploration, before many enemies have a chance to wake. In this case, the excess of staircases negates the difficulty that already exists. Making enemies more alert might help.

The problem I generally encounter is that theres not a steady power curve as you move deeper. Breezing through the previous 5 levels does not insure that your capable of handling the 6th. Random generation and OoD enemies guarantee this, and that's a good thing. In short, finding the edge of once competence zone is difficult when moving deeper happens so quickly.

I still feel that losing a staircase or two would be an improvement. There are scrolls and spells specifically designed to move you deeper into the dungeon. If we lost deep descent, than I'd be more inclined to agree with you.
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Old August 6, 2011, 05:58   #18
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I agree with this, but it seems to me that you can usually find a staircase very quickly, without much exploration, before many enemies have a chance to wake. In this case, the excess of staircases negates the difficulty that already exists. Making enemies more alert might help.
I assure you that more deadly monsters makes it considerably difficult to find a stairs. If you want to try it yourself, I can put up a windows binary on github.
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Old August 6, 2011, 09:04   #19
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I agree with this, but it seems to me that you can usually find a staircase very quickly, without much exploration, before many enemies have a chance to wake. In this case, the excess of staircases negates the difficulty that already exists. Making enemies more alert might help.
So? If you find a staircase to take you deeper, then you either get closer to your competence edge, or you move past it. Eventually you're going to have to deal with the threats of the dungeon, and if you've gone too deep, then you won't be able to handle them.

Basically, I want the decision the player makes when finding a staircase to be "Do I think I can handle the challenge one level deeper?", not "Finally, now I can leave this level behind."
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Old August 6, 2011, 15:37   #20
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So? If you find a staircase to take you deeper, then you either get closer to your competence edge, or you move past it. Eventually you're going to have to deal with the threats of the dungeon, and if you've gone too deep, then you won't be able to handle them.
The problem I have is there's no "am I too deep question" after certain gear is obtained (usually telep/detection + resist poison). At this point, I might as well just go to 100 as quickly as possible.
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