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Old November 10, 2020, 16:36   #1
andvare
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New to Angband. Warriors, rogues and overeating?

Hi all, new to this game and enjoying it so far.

I have tried a few of the race/class combinations but naturally had my most success with Half-Troll/Warrior. I can see why it is so widely endorsed, the HP, regen and damage lets you familiarize yourself with the game without dying too quickly.

It seems to be me that */Rogue is the more metaclass, once you have a good understanding of the fundamentals since the class
allows you to detect objects/enemies, steal and sneak.

What do you think about the warrior and Rogue? Also, do warriors get more blows than Rogue?

Also, on a side note, I think the slowness from overeating is an irritating mechanic that doesnt seem to add much, is there some rationale Im missing that makes it justified? Can it be removed?

Edit: Restructured the text and corrected spelling errors.
Edit2: I attempted to edit the topic in order to remove the special character, but it did not work.

Last edited by andvare; November 11, 2020 at 08:36.
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Old November 10, 2020, 17:58   #2
Sphara
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Hello, and welcome to the forum for my part.

Half Troll Warrior is certainly the easiest combo to begin with and they stay strong through the whole game.
Rogue relies on stealth, great back-up spells and decent melee. Rogues, like all classes really, become very strong as the game progresses.

Rogue attacks per turn caps at 5, whereas warrior gets 6 attacks, when you have gathered enough STRength and DEXterity.

As for food, I try to ignore it and not even carry it. I just eat from a dungeon floor. That can be problematic, though, if you play Half-Troll as regeneration increases food digestion.
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Old November 10, 2020, 18:09   #3
andvare
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Hi and thank you for the quick reply!

Do you think rogues are the more efficient class, i.e. less turns needed to win the game?
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Old November 10, 2020, 18:51   #4
wobbly
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Rogues are very fast to win if you fight the final battle with not enough hps to allow Morgoth LOS. Its possible druids will do a better turn count due to the fast move in some of their shapeshifts.
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Old November 10, 2020, 19:13   #5
Sphara
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Beating the game fast requires several conditions. Probably too many for me to list and analyze here tonight. Most characters are powerhouses at the end and masters of their own specialties.

For a warrior, the specialty is killing things fast with melee and launchers.

For a rogue, they are picking your fights with stealth and detection spells and having great escape spells. Rogue, especially the one who gets all three spellbooks quickly, is probably faster to win than a warrior on average.

These are not, of course, written in stone. A luck with items you'll find, is a big factor. One big artifact can change things dramatically.
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Old November 10, 2020, 20:12   #6
andvare
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Meh, just died at level 22 against a swarm of hummerhorns due to confusion.
"This will be easy...", I thought when engaging. Lovely.
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Old November 10, 2020, 20:18   #7
DavidMedley
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Plug: Blackguards have rConf and attack-all-adjacent spells that are good against hummerhorns.
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Old November 10, 2020, 20:25   #8
Estie
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Hi!

I dont think there is something that can be considered "meta" for this game. Different people have different playstyles.

The warrior class in in a weak position for the current version. Their only advantage is in the very early game from higher starting stats; in the lategame, more blows is a myth. It is a negligible damage increase with the big heavy weapon you are likely to use and gets blown away by what spells bring to the table (slay evil, bear form etc).

I wouldnt worry about winning fast just yet; and I assume you mean real-time fast, as opposed to turn-count fast. While the druid's runspeed shifts help with the latter, that doesnt necessarily translate to game time speed since it takes some time to constantly use shift.

To win the game, you need a lot of knowledge about monsters and game mechanics in the later game. Youre probably going to die a lot acquiring this; alternatively, you can discipline yourself more and make rigid use of rods of probing, but either way, its going to take time.

I recommend trying mage. They have to avoid unpleasant situations right from the start (while the HT-warrior just waltzes through everything) and the sooner you learn how to foresee those and to react appropriately, the faster youll be able to win.
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Old November 10, 2020, 20:40   #9
andvare
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Quote:
The warrior class in in a weak position for the current version. Their only advantage is in the very early game from higher starting stats; in the lategame, more blows is a myth. It is a negligible damage increase with the big heavy weapon you are likely to use and gets blown away by what spells bring to the table (slay evil, bear form etc).
So the warrior in not meta? Jokes aside, is this per design on has there been discussions on how to make the warrior a more attractive choice?

By time I mean turn count. I checked the Angband ladder and it seems almost all warriors attempt winning on level 50 and a very high turncount, presumably after grinding safely.
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Old November 10, 2020, 21:09   #10
Estie
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People dont necessarily play strong combos. More often its other reasons that decide the race/class, like trying new or rarley used or low synergized or just, as mentioned earlier, personal preference.

But even if by meta you strictly mean "strong combos" (why call that meta though), there has been no end of arguments on these forums about what is strong.

"is this per design on has there been discussions on how to make the warrior a more attractive choice"

This is exactly my point. You equal strong with attractive, but I dare say the majority of players here dont. The warrior having become weak might make it more attractive to some.

There is no need to balance the classes in this game. While it has been done (more or less) in the past, the races certainly werent balanced and if anything, that makes the game more interesting - you can pick your difficulty.

As for the intention of it all youll have to ask Nick; my guess it that it just has happened randomly with the changes he implemented and he is probably not aware of the full effects of everything yet.
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