Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 11, 2010, 14:51   #1
dhegler
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 249
dhegler is on a distinguished road
Randart vs. standard

Has there been any talk about allowing randart AND standarts in the same game? I'm not a programmer, so I do not know how the code works, but what is keeping an option like "Allow both standard and randart" off the table? I assume it is a coding issue?

Perhaps this has been discussed, but I haven't seen anything posted in the last 6 months or so...

Also, why does randart have to be a birth option? I forgot it again in my latest character. It seemed like it creates a master artifact list when you start a game, but why not code it so you have a set of standard artifacts and then have the choice to allow for other randarts as well. Allow for an option to allow for either, or both. What keeps you from giving an x% chance of an artifact on a level, then a 50/50% chance it is a randart, and compile a randart upon creation of the level?

While I was playing ToME, I thought this really added to gameplay, at least for me.
dhegler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2010, 15:59   #2
SilverD
Scout
 
SilverD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Age: 34
Posts: 31
SilverD is on a distinguished road
There are a very few artifacts that don't get randomized, but I do kind of like the idea.. The only thing that's stopping me from playing a randart game is the uneasiness that I can't plan ahead on what I'm going to look for in terms of ultimate equipment, resists, etc...

As for the birth option, that's a coding issue. Artifacts get initialized at the character creation process, and that's when the loop for artifact generation takes place, replacing almost all of the standard artifacts.
When you succeed a roll for an artifact drop, the game picks the artifact index,
and then it creates that artifact. The game does not look for standard/randart options at that point, but just creates whatever matches the picked ID.

I do like the idea of a standard artifact having a chance to become a randart at drop time. Or at least, at randart generation.
__________________
Reality is what, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
Failure is not an option. It is a privilege, reserved only for those who try.

Last edited by SilverD; February 11, 2010 at 16:08.
SilverD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2010, 18:15   #3
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverD View Post
I do like the idea of a standard artifact having a chance to become a randart at drop time. Or at least, at randart generation.
That cannot be managed with the current implementation. First, a base item is produced. Then if it passes enough tests, it has a chance to convert into a matching artifact. The "but" is that you have to have the artifact template complete with rarity first before you apply the test, and that means that you have to generate the artifact list at birth.

This is a result of basing randarts off of some measure of power of standarts. If everything was distributional [by which I mean each flag is added to a particular randart independently of other randarts] then you could have the kind of behavior that you want.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2010, 18:33   #4
Remuz
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 77
Remuz is on a distinguished road
One side-effect is that the total number of artifacts is fixed. Once you have found them all, there is not really any way to increase your power (granted, you should have killed M way before that point).

As far as I know, Tome at least does not proceed this way. It seems to me that artifacts get generated all the time, which means that you can always hope to find a better one.
Remuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2010, 19:06   #5
konijn_
Hellband maintainer
 
konijn_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York, the Big Apple
Age: 41
Posts: 367
Donated: $120
konijn_ is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhegler View Post
Has there been any talk about allowing randart AND standarts in the same game? I'm not a programmer, so I do not know how the code works, but what is keeping an option like "Allow both standard and randart" off the table? I assume it is a coding issue?

Perhaps this has been discussed, but I haven't seen anything posted in the last 6 months or so...

Also, why does randart have to be a birth option? I forgot it again in my latest character. It seemed like it creates a master artifact list when you start a game, but why not code it so you have a set of standard artifacts and then have the choice to allow for other randarts as well. Allow for an option to allow for either, or both. What keeps you from giving an x% chance of an artifact on a level, then a 50/50% chance it is a randart, and compile a randart upon creation of the level?

While I was playing ToME, I thought this really added to gameplay, at least for me.
Greetings,
I concur, randarts + regular arts is really nice. You'd have to choose whether you want the randarts to be based on existing artefacts or really be random.

T.
__________________
* Are you ready for something else ? Hellband 0.8.8 is out! *
konijn_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2010, 19:20   #6
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,443
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remuz View Post
As far as I know, Tome at least does not proceed this way. It seems to me that artifacts get generated all the time, which means that you can always hope to find a better one.
Correct. In ToME, when an artifact is generated, it can be a standart, or it can be a randart generated on-the-fly. ToME randarts have nothing to do with the standart set, as far as I know; they just get a name and a selection of randomly-chosen powers based on their equipment slot. Because of the large number of available powers and the small number of "considered useful" powers in ToME, most randarts are basically junk (e.g. a longsword with three slays and nothing else); however, ToME generates so many items, and at such a higher general quality, that you'll still find a few useful ones, in addition to the standarts you'll see.

Seriously, if you ever think that Vanilla has a Too Much Junk problem, go play ToME and dive through the Orc Caves.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2010, 02:30   #7
fizzix
Prophet
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, US
Posts: 3,001
fizzix is on a distinguished road
once multiple pvals on egos get implemented this will be a moot point. They will essentially be a source of randarts.
fizzix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2010, 05:43   #8
shawnosullivan
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 61
shawnosullivan is on a distinguished road
are new ego types planned when multiple pvals are implemented?
shawnosullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2010, 06:02   #9
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,162
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
O/FA have randart and standart as standard (read that fast ). The standard artifacts are always there, and there are also always some randarts. Unlike ToME, though, they are all generated at character birth.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12, 2010, 17:18   #10
dhegler
Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 249
dhegler is on a distinguished road
OK, what is a "pval"? Is that the "power" value placed on a certain characteristic of an artifact? When this gets implemented, how does that fix having both randart and standart?

I just don't understand, forgive my ignorance.
dhegler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Worst Randart Ever... miyazaki AAR 39 July 14, 2009 18:00
Trying to trace a randart bug (or two, in fact) Magnate Vanilla 3 May 7, 2009 22:10
Suggestion: Combine points-based with standard roller PaulBlay Vanilla 2 February 21, 2009 15:17
New randart code in trunk Magnate Vanilla 1 February 8, 2009 15:17
Coding standard? Indentation? Bandobras Vanilla 10 May 24, 2008 19:46


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.