"Nick is going to butcher the game"

[Derakon]

Put another way, tangar, your Diplomacy roll (or I guess in D&D 5e it'd be a Persuasion roll) failed. And this isn't one of those situations where you can just keep trying over and over again.

Tone matters.

[Chud]

For what it's worth, though I've made a few pro-this and con-that comments in other threads, I'm definitely in favor of the recent changes. Thanks for putting in all the work!

[dos350]

this isnt about winning, its about angband,,

i think that honestly dehumanizing opposition is only making us hurt more,,,
if everyone wants all the change so much, why are things getting reverted in other thread?

im not trying to abuse anyone, but i feel ignored and abused: dehumanized

all for the game i love so its worth it, but before u complain that som1s persuasive skills are low, consider that they are trying to preserve a very special thing, not insult u~ why so defensive?

[mrfy]

Originally Posted by Chud

For what it's worth, though I've made a few pro-this and con-that comments in other threads, I'm definitely in favor of the recent changes. Thanks for putting in all the work!

Same here. I'm excited with the changes, it has made the game more interesting.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

As for banning Tangar, I've already self-banned him. I no longer read a single thing he posts.

[MWGE]

Spam bots deserve banning.
Everyone else, who is polite, deserves to be heard.
Though being heard as ever does need to come with a modicum of listening.
If ones point of view is divergent from the main, then so be it.
I'm glad no one is banning Tangar (or DOS). It would be a loss.
I wouldn't mind if he accepted that his point of view wasn't in general shared though and that others do think/care about the matter as much as he does.
In any event...Glad he's not being banned but I think Nick is doing a great job as maintainer. The good thing about V is that it lives and breathes. That's important. If it goes "back" at some point so be it. I shall see what happens then as will everyone else i'm sure.

On another note Nick... RED RED RED

[Conker]

Tangar has made a couple of good points, though he's a poor spokesman for his cause. English not being his native language is probably only part of that, as Nick intimated.

As far as the main point goes - I'll miss some of the monster names and things I 'grew up' with, but I can't really argue for them beyond a childish sort of nostalgia and perhaps antipathy toward unnecessary change. And Derakon's point about Angband dying the moment it stops changing is entirely correct. So we probably shouldn't indulge our nostalgia beyond the point of simply being cautious and remaining open to preserving a few things that people pop up to say they are particularly attached to.

In terms of the bestiary, it's strange... the points people make about D&D being the standard, and being 'generic' and not quite fitting in certain places are all entirely sound. And yet whenever I play a game that has strange esoteric names for things that 'should' be standard, I find it vaguely annoying. As if they're trying to force me to start caring about their particular brand of lore where they call an elf a Foreststrider and a troll a Shmoop, and I resent it. And I know it's silly - they're perfectly entitled to try and make their settings a bit unique. Hell, looking at it logically, it's laudable that they're doing something even slightly different. Yet I still find myself rolling my eyes at it. 'For goodness' sake, can't we just have copper, silver and gold coins instead of your Dinars and Septimes and Moons?'.

That's probably just me being much more interested in combat and mechanics than story, though. The more recognisable and even 'generic' things are, the quicker and easier I can slot them into place on my mental map of the battlefield and work out what to do next.

Anyway, the main reason I posted this was to say kudos to Nick for his last post. We all fall below our own standards from time to time, but it takes a decent bloke to apologise for it when he doesn't have to.

[tangar]

Angband: time to move on

Originally Posted by Nick

*Sigh*
I'm sorry about that post. It was Monday morning, I was feeling kind of grumpy, and you popped up accusing someone else of being counterproductive and it just all got a bit much.

No problem, no harm done. It's cool to have freedom of speech and I hope it would stay the same at this wonderful forums.

After all - we all wish good to Angband. There is no enemies, we all on one side, just have different vision on matters.

I'm sorry if my crude English language was offencive, I got two properties - hot temper and straightforwardness - which mixed together sometimes bring troubles. Sorry for that.

But still it's fun to have this discussion, even if everything predetermined. We all let off steam a bit there, in this topic.. So we could move forward without hidden disrespect. It's good that we 'purged' ourself, put all thougths and feelings to this basket.

I wish good luck with current Angband updates. I'll still continue to play 'old' lore version of the game, but I would continue to look into new updates and would be glad to take new interesting monsters to my variant (or maybe Powerwyrm would include them to PWMA - as my variant is based at PWMA).

This discussion gave to me some new experience and knowledge, I hope that I'm not alone in this positive aquirement and this conversation gave some positive stuff (along with negative, there is no way to deny it) to the community.

Kind regards,
Tangar

[Antoine]

Well spoken Tangar

[gglibertine]

So Nick, should we be referring to you as 'Huge Nick' now?