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Old June 21, 2013, 17:48   #311
Starhawk
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To give you an idea of rarity, I've played hundreds of characters -- ALL of whom were stealth-stabbers interested in deathblades.

This was the first one I've found that was better than Delmereth. So I'm not sure it's a huge problem.

Also: I WON I WON I WON I WON!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!


My character ended up as a combat god. It was amazing. I thought about trying to kill Morgoth but didn't want to jeopardize my first winner. The throne room was really hard - without any source of Sharpness, the only way to get a Silmaril was to switch to Glend, guzzle a Potion of Strength, and let Morgoth whip my ass with my decreased Evasion. I genuinely thought I was going to die - and then after getting the Silmaril, I had troubles making it over all the broken terrain to the stairs. BUT - it is done!

Lack of Sharpness was also the reason I didn't try to kill Morgoth. My flurry of blades was not going to keep up with his regeneration, which is hellacious, I discovered. Although I ended the game with 7k XP in the bank, so I could have picked up Song of Sharpness and given it a whirl. I thought really hard about doing that at 50'. But that will have to be for next time.

Edit: removed character dump because it was long... here's a ladder link.

No Smithing, no Archery, no Song. Hooah.
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Old June 22, 2013, 07:31   #312
HugoTheGreat2011
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To give everyone a heads up, it *is* possible to wipe out Morgoth for good, without ANY source of Sharpness and without Song of Slaying. No Songs, no Archery, and no Smithing! I pulled it off very quickly, with my character, Prologue.

Check out my character dump here:
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=13960

(I don't want to spoil the details in the forum for the new winners. Have a look at Prologue and you'll figure out how. )

Last edited by HugoTheGreat2011; June 22, 2013 at 07:46.
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Old June 22, 2013, 11:06   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starhawk View Post
To give you an idea of rarity, I've played hundreds of characters -- ALL of whom were stealth-stabbers interested in deathblades.

This was the first one I've found that was better than Delmereth. So I'm not sure it's a huge problem.
Thanks for explaining. In that case, everyone can rest assured that fancier deathblades won't be more rare next version.

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Also: I WON I WON I WON I WON!!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!
Congratulations!
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Old June 24, 2013, 17:01   #314
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questions and ideas

Knockback idea: 1) Make stat test not vs. strength but vs. strength bonus with your weapon so it remains a heavy weapon ability (less longsword knockback), 2) Roll stun into it? (or maybe that is too good)

Moral: I would love to have some modest moral bonus on either song of slaying or elbereth. (Or maybe that is what song of staying is for, never took it though.) (Got frightened while enraged and with decent will in my last char and had to tunnel my way into the cat fortress because I couldn't get past the watchers.)

Confusion: What does confusion do exactly - is confusing a 10-will creature even resulting in a serious amount of wrong direction? (I.e. is it useful to take cruel blow with a no-stealth, light weapon build?) Does the confusion score build up to something as does stun -> heavy stun -> knocked out?
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Old June 24, 2013, 20:35   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taptap View Post
Knockback idea: 1) Make stat test not vs. strength but vs. strength bonus with your weapon so it remains a heavy weapon ability (less longsword knockback),
This is a good idea. I was thinking of this the other day (perhaps someone here mentioned it?). We don't like the fact that it is now just as easy to trigger with a dagger as with a mattock, but we can't factor in everything and went with simplicity, especially because people typically *are* wielding weapons that are about optimal for their strength. I'll definitely consider this some more.

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2) Roll stun into it? (or maybe that is too good)
I think that is. In my view, Knock Back is still really strong. Maybe too strong. Maybe it got stronger with the change. It is also a fun and tactically interesting ability. I'd like some people to try to break it before we make it stronger.

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Moral: I would love to have some modest moral bonus on either song of slaying or elbereth. (Or maybe that is what song of staying is for, never took it though.)
That *is* what Staying is for, but letting Song of Slaying give Resist Fear wouldn't be unreasonable.

Quote:
Confusion: What does confusion do exactly - is confusing a 10-will creature even resulting in a serious amount of wrong direction? (I.e. is it useful to take cruel blow with a no-stealth, light weapon build?) Does the confusion score build up to something as does stun -> heavy stun -> knocked out?
Confusion is binary unlike Stun. It makes you likely to go some direction other than where you are aiming. Here are the probabilities, straight from the source code. You can see there is about 1/3 chance of going in the intended direction.

Code:
// gives 3 chances to be turned left and 3 chances to be turned right
// leads to a binomial distribution of direction around the intended one:
//
// 15 20 15
//  6     6   (chances are all out of 64)
//  1  0  1
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Old June 24, 2013, 20:53   #316
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Originally Posted by half View Post
In my view, Knock Back is still really strong. Maybe too strong. Maybe it got stronger with the change. It is also a fun and tactically interesting ability. I'd like some people to try to break it before we make it stronger.
Competition idea, anyone?

I, for one, welcome our bigass weapon overlords.
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Old June 24, 2013, 21:05   #317
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Originally Posted by debo View Post
Competition idea, anyone?

I, for one, welcome our bigass weapon overlords.
If I'm not mistaken, the utility of Knock-back in older versions (pre-1.1) depended on the the weight of the weapon...But, I'm not sure.
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Old June 24, 2013, 22:15   #318
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Yeah I think it was if (weapon weight * damage >= 100) then knock back
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Old June 24, 2013, 22:40   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by half View Post
You can see there is about 1/3 chance of going in the intended direction.
Code:
// gives 3 chances to be turned left and 3 chances to be turned right
// leads to a binomial distribution of direction around the intended one:
//
// 15 20 15
//  6     6   (chances are all out of 64)
//  1  0  1
Aaah, thanks. I always had the wrong impression it is dependent on will This table tells me cruel blow is quite useful for a light-weapon, flanking char with ZoC and Opportunist.

Knockback: Yes, knockback is still a strong ability - I was knocking back a lot with my latest char (incl. dragons and Ancalagon in particular). Goes well with charge, a heavy weapon and a corridor. Still nothing game breaking imo, at least it doesn't help in the throne room.

Serpents: Is there any chance to get an unique serpent?

Song of Freedom: Has anyone tried taking on Morgoth singing Song of Freedom? (I have found myself twice now strong enough to take on him but missed my chances because of the amount of debris and pits around and the immense regeneration of Morgoth until I repositioned.)

Last edited by taptap; June 24, 2013 at 22:46.
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Old June 25, 2013, 01:27   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taptap View Post
Song of Freedom: Has anyone tried taking on Morgoth singing Song of Freedom? (I have found myself twice now strong enough to take on him but missed my chances because of the amount of debris and pits around and the immense regeneration of Morgoth until I repositioned.)
Never did this before. I think it is a less used often, yet legit, approach to taking down that dude. Most players just ocus on Song of Sharpness to do the talking.

Last edited by HugoTheGreat2011; June 25, 2013 at 01:38.
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