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Old August 19, 2010, 11:01   #31
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maurino View Post
Restoring the old DOS Version (I like to play full screen, windows does not allow it, must continue with 3.0.6)
Better documentation, expecially for items/strategies at depth > 2500

Thanks
There are no special strategies below 2500. Just the basic:

1) don't let yourself killed
2) know what you are fighting
3) if unknown assume it can kill you if it gets a chance to attack.

Probing helps to figure out what monsters can do.
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Old August 19, 2010, 22:22   #32
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My "would most like to see" feature is to generalize the DROP_CHOSEN attribute to be able to apply it to any monster, not just Morgoth. See http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=1180 for a discussion.
I like this idea of assigning a specific drop to a given unique. TOME did this -- I remember beating Paths of the Dead for the first time and expressing gladness in a forum that the guardian, Feagwath, dropped Doomcaller. Someone promply notified me that he always drops Doomcaller, which didn't take anything away from having it given the difficulty in getting it.
Doing this could greatly affect gameplay. For example, if cubragol were only dropped by a deep unique, then one couldn't just traverse levels 95-99 and back looking for it on the floor or in a vault. So you would be forced to buff up if you wanted to get it to use in your final kit.
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Old August 19, 2010, 23:04   #33
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I wouldn't mind much if some uniques had a chance of dropping a thematically-appropriate artifact. The main thing IMO is that a) it shouldn't be guaranteed (maybe you could specify a percentage drop rate so e.g. Morgoth is still guaranteed to drop his stuff), and b) it shouldn't be endgame gear. Giving Feagwath Doomcaller is too much IMO. But we could probably fudge it a bit and give Smaug a chance of dropping Belegennon and claim that that's the mithril shirt that Frodo wore. Giving Smaug the Arkenstone would probably be too much. Giving Smeagol the One Ring? Yyyyeahno.

Of course, this all goes out the window with randarts. And it'd be yet another way the game would be made easier.
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Old August 20, 2010, 01:28   #34
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I wouldn't necessarily advocate that all artifacts be unique-specific. Nor that all uniques drop an artifact that is strictly theme-appropriate (such as smeagol with the One, as cited above).

However, I don't know that being required to win fights to earn artifacts would make a game easier, randart or otherwise...with enough patience it's easier to skulk around the deep dungeon with rods of TO and some !speed until unguarded artifacts turn up near the stairs.

That approach seems more "broken" to me than any exploitation from a likely/guaranteed artifact drop by many/all uniques. Except perhaps for the rogue class...but that's a different thread altogether...
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Old August 20, 2010, 12:14   #35
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by Hariolor View Post
I wouldn't necessarily advocate that all artifacts be unique-specific. Nor that all uniques drop an artifact that is strictly theme-appropriate (such as smeagol with the One, as cited above).

However, I don't know that being required to win fights to earn artifacts would make a game easier, randart or otherwise...with enough patience it's easier to skulk around the deep dungeon with rods of TO and some !speed until unguarded artifacts turn up near the stairs.

That approach seems more "broken" to me than any exploitation from a likely/guaranteed artifact drop by many/all uniques. Except perhaps for the rogue class...but that's a different thread altogether...
How about preventing artifacts from appearing at floor but increase the chance for vaults and "special rooms" somewhat? That would make "preserve off" -gaming a little bit easier too.

IMO game should be balanced so that it is possible to win and play without any artifacts with high-level ego items and DSM:s. Artifacts should all be "wow!" -items.
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Old August 20, 2010, 14:54   #36
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That's kinda troubling, Timo... if it's possible to win WITHOUT artifacts, and artifacts are still considered "wow" items, more powerful than any ego item, that kind of implies that an artifact would make the game too easy if you're lucky enough to find one!

Then again, if artifacts were only dropped by tough monsters and never found on the floor, then I suppose that's an acceptable reward for taking the risk of fighting them!
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Old August 20, 2010, 14:56   #37
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
That's kinda troubling, Timo... if it's possible to win WITHOUT artifacts, and artifacts are still considered "wow" items, more powerful than any ego item, that kind of implies that an artifact would make the game too easy if you're lucky enough to find one!
I'm not against making winning easy with proper equipment, just that that "easy to win" equipment should be hard to get.

[EDIT] and BTW it is now too easy to win with current set of ego-items. Way easier than it used to be. Pretty much _everything_ would need a downgrade except those old set legendary hugely powerful artifacts (RoP, Ringil, Doomcaller, Deathwreaker, Thorin, Cambeleg, Fingolfin, etc.). Then artifacts, if made more rare, would be "wow!"-items.

Last edited by Timo Pietilš; August 20, 2010 at 15:07.
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Old August 20, 2010, 15:15   #38
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I agree with Timo on this. I wouldn't mind strengthening artifacts and increasing their rarities by a factor of 10. In fact, I really liked the way that randarts worked before the change. I would find about 40 artifacts and that was enough to assemble an endgame kit. Some games I would find no artifacts for a given equipment slot. This is good! If I scummed longer I would find more artifacts, but that is the point! Rarity one artifacts never showed up, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

There were many ego items I'd use in the endgame. Here are some I've used: shield of preservation or elvenkind, crowns of might, helms of ESP (or magi w/ ESP), boots of speed, bows of lothlorien or extra shots, xbows of haradrim or extra shots, high end ego weapons, cloaks of magi with esp, amulets of trickery, rings of speed, gloves of thievery or power. All of these items have been used in an endgame kit for me. In my last game I just picked up law dragon scale mail of permanence so now the armor slot has competitive ego items also.

Now I am not opposed to having artifacts that obsolete all these items. I am opposed to finding these artifacts every game.
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Old August 20, 2010, 17:41   #39
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One thing to consider is that we may just have too many artifacts, full-stop. There's 136 of 'em! If you find even a quarter of those that's still a huge number of found items that just aren't going to be used. IMO that devalues the concept of artifact a bit. These items are legendary, after all.

We could change Angband so that all artifacts are endgame-viable, with the expectation that the player not necessarily find an artifact for each slot. That'd be pretty drastic. We could also go for, broadly speaking, two tiers of artifacts: midgame (1000'-3000') and endgame, where the midgame artifacts wouldn't be able to compete with high-level ego items.

Regardless of what we do, though, artifacts need to be less common. My last winner found over 50, in one of the fastest games I've ever played. I'd be happier if it were more like 20.
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Old August 20, 2010, 18:50   #40
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Regardless of what we do, though, artifacts need to be less common. My last winner found over 50, in one of the fastest games I've ever played. I'd be happier if it were more like 20.
I can get behind this. I don't object to having made things earlier and more powerful, but if they were a lot more rare that would be balanced in my view. Eliminating things is okay too but I gather more controversial.
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