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Old August 14, 2010, 23:47   #11
Catwalk
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Excellent ideas ewert! As an oldschool rogue player, I feel that many of the rogue-likes have fallen short of Rogue's appeal. NetHack does a decent job, but even there you fall into the micromanagement trap mid-game. Too much economic freedom leads to boredom easily.
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Old August 15, 2010, 15:52   #12
ewert
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http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10535&ok

This is nice playing like this with randarts. After I found the rod of recall, didn't really feel the lack of shops at all. Of course playing a paladin is easy on even basic consumables ... I do have a stack of CCW and have been leaving them in dungeon lately though.

Attached is the savefile, if it works without the modded exe. Should enable you to load it and see what stuff I have stored in the shops too.

I will definitely continue making this option better, had enough for Morgy ages ago but been hitting all kinds of pits etc due to my quad immunities... =P

Next I think I'll do what PD suggested, make general store have basic stuff, probably non-refreshing too though. So maybe 99 WoR, 99 ?Phase, 99 !CSW, maybe 99 of books 1-3? I agree that all classes should have more "pro-player" starting gear but it's not bad, sort of fun to have to kill stuff / explore to find that first suitable weapon too. Archery reliant chars might find this hard to start though with no plethora of ammo, but I can't say about that as I use archery so little. Definitely no ranger plingplinging though. =P
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Old August 17, 2010, 17:55   #13
ewert
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Okay made a more finished test version, I left general store alone except no-sell. I thought about putting the books in etc., but decided against it. Priest is hit the worst, but ... it gives more meaning to early levels, IMHO, to have to find books 2 and 3. Book 4 is not such a priority anyways. One thing though, an unlucky fire event might leave the char almost helpless... but it IS an option.

Is there anyplace I can post a .exe to easily without fuss? I'd really like for people without compilers set up to be able to test it easily too, I know I would love to test it but would be daunted by the task of compiling it myself from a diff file ...

Anyways, here is the diff file:
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Old August 17, 2010, 18:03   #14
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And naturally now figured that the wand/staff increase is bit illogical ... lets just say the shopkeeper tries to recharge all staves/wands, just fails on anything but the "basic" ones, and still charges for ingredients.

Well minor issue, will fix at a later date. Now, playtesters please! =)
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Old August 17, 2010, 19:03   #15
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Originally Posted by ewert View Post
And naturally now figured that the wand/staff increase is bit illogical ... lets just say the shopkeeper tries to recharge all staves/wands, just fails on anything but the "basic" ones, and still charges for ingredients.

Well minor issue, will fix at a later date. Now, playtesters please! =)
Instead of calling this no selling, I think you should call it no buying. Despite the general store.

No selling is about making money drops useful, because you use money to buy things and you throw away junk you would have carried home to sell. Your change seems almost opposite to that in nature. If this gets popular, it will confuse further discussions about "no selling".

I don't like the idea of starting without the second book. Casters without spells. Ugh. That's cost you 1 playtester, and I doubt I am the only one who feels this way. I am ambivalent about playing without book 3 for sale. Do you want to force priests to play without Orb or mages with no pseudo and no Identify until DL40? It's not uncommon in my games to get quite deep before seeing book 3.
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Old August 17, 2010, 19:09   #16
Derakon
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An alternate approach to that problem would be to make the books more common. I don't personally like that much because any given book is useless to about half of all characters, but that's a comparatively minor problem.
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Old August 17, 2010, 19:18   #17
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Or bring non dungeon books MuchMuch shallower?

And okay lets call it the nobuying-extrastorage

I'll personally test a few priests. What were the book dlvls, 20 for third? Btw I haven't ever used orb as curse-id...
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Old August 17, 2010, 20:26   #18
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Orb as curse-ID is less relevant now as cursed items are far less prevalent, characters have faster pseudo-ID, and there are significantly fewer items to burn ID charges on (making carrying scrolls/staves of ID feasible). Mages will still miss not having early access to the Identify spell, but that's more because of their woeful carrying capacity than anything else.
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Old August 17, 2010, 20:30   #19
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It might not be so bad with your patch to rarities. It doesn't matter what the native depth is. It matters when you get it.

My rule of thumb has been not to expect to find book X before depth 10 * (X + 1). One could find them much earlier of course. I am sure your patch changes this significantly, but I cannot guess how much.

There is a reason people say that book 3 is a required buy in ironman games. If you don't buy it, you usually die before you find it in the dungeon.

[curmudgeon on]
The first four books should be for slot and weight management purposes. They should not be about denying casters spells.

They are called town books for a reason. IMO you should just sell them in town.
[curmudgeon off]

If you want to eliminate buying, you could just give them away for free, starting the game with 10 of each in the appropriate home. IMO that's better than not having them available.
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Old August 17, 2010, 21:26   #20
Timo Pietilš
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Orb as curse-ID is less relevant now as cursed items are far less prevalent.
AFAIK that "feature" of OoD has been removed in 3.1.2. It doesn't anymore detect curses or destroy cursed items.
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