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Old October 1, 2010, 09:37   #41
Mikko Lehtinen
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Hello,

here's my proposition in a bit more refined form.

My idea is to limit the late game power of the Magical Device skill somewhat, while increasing the importance of the magical realm skills. The wand blaster archetype would now need to invest in more skills, which is only fair.

You need to know the inner secrets of the relevant magical realm to use some of the most powerful magical devices.

You need at least 50 % in Wizardry to use these:
- Rod of Teleport Away (lvl 65) {but anyone can use the wand}
- Wand of Wizardry (lvl 80)
- Staff of Chaos (lvl 80)

You need at least 50 % in Piety to use these:
- Staff of Healing (lvl 70)
- Staff of Holiness (lvl 73)
- Rod of Restoration (lvl 75)
- Rod of Healing (lvl 78)

You need at least 50 % in Nature Lore to use these:
- Rod of Lightning Strike (lvl 73)
- Rod of Northwinds (lvl 78)
- Rod of Dragonfire (lvl 82)
- Rod of Glaurung's Blood (lvl 85)

You need at least 50 % in Blood Dominion to use these:
- Rod of Drain Life (lvl 65) {but anyone can use the wand}
- Wand of Doomblasts (lvl 75)
- Staff of Doomspells (lvl 85)
- Wand of Annihilation (lvl 90)

Mikko
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Old October 2, 2010, 17:41   #42
NotMorgoth
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I for one am not in favour of removing the 100 power cap.

In a game like this with non-persistent levels, you could keep on scumming the same levels forever, raising more and more skills, which just seems silly - a bit like if in Vanilla your level was not capped at 50 and you could keep levelling up forever.

For those players who like to learn a lot of skills - this is still possible; you really don't need to get every skill to 100%, and while some skills have important thresholds above 90% (eg spellcasting) there really isn't that much difference between say Magical Infusion at 90% and 100%.

Other thoughts:

Magical Devices

I agree somewhat with the people that think this skill is too universally useful as well as being very powerful for killing in the late game. My suggestion is to add another Oath/Guild (Guild of Artificers or something,) and only by joining this can you use devices, particularly the deadly late game ones, at their full potential.

Alchemy

I notice that no-one else has mentioned this, maybe because very few players seem to use this skill; perhaps this in itself is an indication that it needs tweaking.

I have been experimenting with an alchemist recently (I will go back and finish that game at some point,) and my experience is that while the skill itself is OK, the problem is that it does nothing by itself as you also need Infusion to be able to find essences.

Maybe Alchemy by itself should also let you find essences, but then you would never be able to make more than 1 potion/scroll at a time, and obviously you would not be able to do the other things that Infusion allows like controlling forged items or recharging.

Weapon Restrictions

I'd really like to see an end to the silly restriction of priests and blunt weapons. Maybe in some games this is relevant for balance reasons as priests might be overpowered if they could use any weapon, but a Sangband priest would probably use martial arts anyway. This may require rebalancing of priests in general, and I'm not sure how the recent changes to weapon damage dice would affect it.

Weapon Abilities

If you're looking for more interesting things for warriors to do with weapons, here are a few ideas:

Lunge: usable with polearms, allows you to attack a monster that is 1 tile away. Some monsters with tentacles etc could also use this against the player.

Knockback: I know that some weapons (Impact I think) can knock the opponent back, but maybe it could also be a talent with blunt weapons. It could maybe also do more damage if the monster cannot be knocked back, eg if there is a wall in the way.

Mighty Blow: An extra powerful attack that does more damage for 1 turn, and has a greater chance of stunning the monster, but leaves you more vulnerable on the following turn.



I haven't actually played 1.01 yet, though I am looking forward to doing so, to test the rebalanced weapons etc; I've been distracted by Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, (hint: it's insanely hard,) but I'll be back to playing Sangband soon, as I'll want to play a game I can actually win.


EDIT: I should also add that I don't think it's a good idea to allow characters to reduce skills in order to gain others, at least not in a totally free and unlimited way; generally endgame characters have enough experience to spare that they could easily re-skill to face specific opponents, which would undermine the whole idea of choosing skills.

Last edited by NotMorgoth; October 2, 2010 at 21:16.
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Old October 8, 2010, 09:48   #43
camlost
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Sangband 1.0.1.129

Hopefully this release will clear up the major problems for a while so I can focus on more major enhancements for 1.0.2

Noteable changes from [1.0.1.107] to [1.0.1.129]
------------------------------------------
  • Add option to allow raising skills beyond power cap
  • Allow skill reduction. Experience will only refund if skill was raised while on skill screen.
  • '|' key will now switch weapons when wielding two weapons instead of swapping karate/wrestling.
  • Items will be pseudo
  • identified when picked up in the dark, if you have infravision
  • Dwarven armor added.
  • Spell resistance skill less potent. All characters will receive some spell resistance.
  • Utility magic devices made easier to use.
  • Overmind spell now works.
  • Wargear should be more easily and powerfully (pseudo)identified.
  • No need to inscribe '=g' on quiver ammo anymore. Items quivered will return to the quiver until removed.

Sangband Home Page
Sangband 1.0.1.129 for Windows
Sangband source for 1.0.1.129
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Old October 9, 2010, 08:53   #44
Mikko Lehtinen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camlost View Post
[*] Utility magic devices made easier to use.
Hey Joshua,

I like this a lot! Elegant solution.

Now I have to test whether shadowstalking has become *too* easy. The game is less interesting if shadowstalkers can just keep their light off all the time. It's important to keep the tactical choice in the game.

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Old October 9, 2010, 14:13   #45
Mikko Lehtinen
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Hello,

I suspect that Staff of Trap Location is accidentally missing easy_activate? All the other detection staves have that, and so does Rod of Trap Location.

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Old October 9, 2010, 19:32   #46
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Quote:
I suspect that Staff of Trap Location is accidentally missing easy_activate? All the other detection staves have that, and so does Rod of Trap Location.
Indeed, though given the formula currently used, it won't actually have any effect. It's fixed in current now. Thanks.
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Old October 10, 2010, 19:01   #47
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Say, is it just my lack of skill in playing Angband, or are ingredients for weaponsmithing and the like way too hard to come by? I spend a ton of skill points getting the skill, and now I have no ingredients to use! Maybe there should be a shop which sells raw materials?
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Old October 10, 2010, 19:31   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekolis View Post
Say, is it just my lack of skill in playing Angband, or are ingredients for weaponsmithing and the like way too hard to come by? I spend a ton of skill points getting the skill, and now I have no ingredients to use! Maybe there should be a shop which sells raw materials?
Are you talking about components (copper, bronze, etc.) or essences for infusion (acid, fire, cold, nexus, protection, etc.)?

If you're talking about the first, you will eventually find some. They're relatively uncommon, and with good reason. Most of the time you craft it'll be better than an ego item, so they're relatively uncommon; you should still find them occasionally. If you want essences, you need to raise infusion in order to find them and use them.
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Old October 10, 2010, 20:59   #49
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A couple of bugs I've encountered in !.0.1.117:

- AFAICT fireproof books stack with non-fireproof, with the trait present in your backpack trumping the one not present.
- Activating the Palantir crashes the game. In the game's defense, though, the description *does* say "full [spoiler] - at grave risk."
(Reproducible within the same save, happened on XP).

Also one thing that I can't tell whether it's a bug or a feature, and may be different in the latest build anyway:
- Reaching 100% power makes you unable to restore your skills by spending XP: attempting to do so gets the "you need no more practice" message.

Last edited by Bostock; October 10, 2010 at 21:06.
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Old October 11, 2010, 02:28   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostock View Post
- AFAICT fireproof books stack with non-fireproof, with the trait present in your backpack trumping the one not present.
Fixed in r131.
Quote:
- Activating the Palantir crashes the game. In the game's defense, though, the description *does* say "full [spoiler] - at grave risk."
(Reproducible within the same save, happened on XP).
Can you send me the savefile? (middendorfproject@gmail.com)
Quote:
Also one thing that I can't tell whether it's a bug or a feature, and may be different in the latest build anyway:
- Reaching 100% power makes you unable to restore your skills by spending XP: attempting to do so gets the "you need no more practice" message.
Yes, this is a bug.
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