Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 5, 2010, 17:03   #21
ewert
Knight
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 525
ewert is on a distinguished road
As a matter of fact, I think this will be my next fork path after takk gets menus fixed so I can test if my no-selling patch works! 2 spell changes, mana storm and whateveritwasinwrathofgod, wheeeee.
ewert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2010, 17:15   #22
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewert View Post
Thus my opinion is: for priests give a very high level endgame single target killer, maybe a slay-evil spell like orb. Doesn't have to be that much better than orb in dmg/rnd, but higher dmg/mana. Orb is already good vs small groups, and dispel evil mwahahahahaaa *coughcough*. Currently was it annihilation in wrath of god just plain sucks.
Annihilation has severe drawbacks, like it doesn't affect nonliving creatures at all. Also it is a bolt without chance to beam. Make it radius 0 ball-spell, make it affect pretty much everything and lower the manacost and failure and you have a working spell. Currently it is just waste of spell slot.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2010, 18:14   #23
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,941
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Agreed with Timo. Call it Smite or something so we can imagine Eru reaching down a finger to smush out the offending monster. Radius-0 ball, unresistable 350 damage against any target.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2010, 19:30   #24
ewert
Knight
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 525
ewert is on a distinguished road
I like having priests vs evil stuff though, so I'm thinking more of just a bit higher than orb single trg vs evil but nice dmg/mana ratio.

Smite:

Radius 0-ball
20% higher than orb dmg with similar double vs evil style
Mana per dmg ratio to be decided, but better than orb somewhat
ewert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2010, 19:50   #25
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,941
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Orb is IMO unfeasibly slow in the lategame. Great mana efficiency, sure, but it just doesn't deal damage fast enough. Its damage peaks at 75 + 3d6 (clvl * 3 / 2 + 3d6), doubled against evil, giving a maximum single-shot damage of 186. In contrast, the mage's manastorm peaks at 400 damage (300 + clvl * 2), flat out, against any target.

I don't object to priests focusing against evil, and I do think that mages should be better at blowing stuff up, but I also think that the priest's spell needs to be hitting around 350/shot to be worthwhile. That's more than a 20% boost compared to Orb.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2010, 21:33   #26
Magnate
Angband Devteam member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,057
Magnate is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to Magnate Send a message via Yahoo to Magnate
Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that magi/priests should be in any way barred from using melee. I just meant that I didn't feel that melee should be as competitive for them as it is now, compared with their spells. I am encouraged by ewert's response: I hadn't realised that MarbleDice's changes to mana costs had been so useful for casters.
Magnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2010, 21:36   #27
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Orb is IMO unfeasibly slow in the lategame. Great mana efficiency, sure, but it just doesn't deal damage fast enough. Its damage peaks at 75 + 3d6 (clvl * 3 / 2 + 3d6), doubled against evil, giving a maximum single-shot damage of 186. In contrast, the mage's manastorm peaks at 400 damage (300 + clvl * 2), flat out, against any target.
Doesn't manastorm still have something like 20% failure at peak? That would make it 320 damage [adjust as needed] and the difference between a sure thing and a significant failure rate further weakens the comparison. It's still better of course, but maybe 60% better rather than 120% better.
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5, 2010, 22:35   #28
ewert
Knight
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 525
ewert is on a distinguished road
4 hits x 100 (pretty okay dmg) = 400, priest/mage hit rate not okay -> much less

Okay you CAN get high melee dmg with priest/mage too, but hit rates are much less than real melee classes. I know my last priest that had bolts etc. couldn't hit for ... beeb against M.

I didn't remember orb dmg that it was so low. Off the top of my head I'd go for 250 against evil at 50, 0% fail.
ewert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6, 2010, 05:46   #29
Timo Pietilš
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilš is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewert View Post
4 hits x 100 (pretty okay dmg) = 400, priest/mage hit rate not okay -> much less

Okay you CAN get high melee dmg with priest/mage too, but hit rates are much less than real melee classes. I know my last priest that had bolts etc. couldn't hit for ... beeb against M.

I didn't remember orb dmg that it was so low. Off the top of my head I'd go for 250 against evil at 50, 0% fail.
There's still the problem that priests are designed to be melee-fighters. They had originally five blows and rune to protect them and healing to heal any damage they got in fighting. They are not even meant to have very strong offensive spells. Mages have offensive spells and originally they didn't have rune, which BTW IMO doesn't belong to mage even now. That's clearly melee-protection spell.

Even with annihilation boosted to melee-levels, you still have a think which to use your mana, one rune for many rounds of melee fighting and healing as needed, or rune, annihilation and healing which burns your mana way faster. I think priests still choose melee over annihilation. Unless you make it really cheap spell. Like three or four mana max.
Timo Pietilš is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6, 2010, 09:07   #30
Pete Mack
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,414
Donated: $40
Pete Mack is on a distinguished road
@Eddie --
IIRC, mana storm has 9% failure at cl 50 18/200.

As for priest damage spells, why bother? The combination of
* Rune of Protection in a town book(!)
* Essentially unlimited healing @300HP in the same town book(!!)
* Adequate Melee with a pretty-good weapon
means that any mana spent on spells is wasted unless you can do something like 250 damage/turn at a cost of 10 mana.

Rationale: M has a 1 in 5 chance of breaking a glyph in melee, so the cost of a glyph is 55/5 = 11 extra mana turn of melee, or ~7 mana/turn overall, since M has a 1/3 chance of attempting a spell.
Add in 1/2 healing spell for every broken rune, and the cost goes up to

(16/2 + 55)/5*2/3 = 8.4

Of course, this makes some assumptions, like LOS will be broken up so you can phase to recast ?RoP, but that's OK since Priests also have Earthquake in a town book...
Pete Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.