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Old October 7, 2010, 22:59   #1
Sincro
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Ranger spells

Specifically, the spells in Tenser's transformation.

I have issues with 2 of them: Enchant Weapon, and Elemental Brand.

First, the easy issue: Why is it not possible to choose which brand you get? Especially since if you need arrows of a specific type, it is a simple matter of shop scumming to continue buying arrows (for next to no money by the time you have the TT spellbook) and casting and recasting until you get the brand you want.

Second: The enchant weapon code is truly annoying. I cannot count the number of times I have first spent far too much time getting the proper brand on a stack of arrows, then started enchanting them up, and instead of being able to add a new batch of +9 +9 arrows to an existing stack, the game does something dumb like making the new stack +10 +8, or vice versa. And then trying to make the two stacks the same just ends up being an exercise in frustration. In my humble opinion, the spell ought to be split in 2: one for to hit, the other for to-dam. Or, alternately, code the spell to simple be unable to enchant anything past a certain bonus, be it 9 or (better) 10.

I understand the game is supposed to be difficult, and yes, tedious, too. I am a *long* time player of Nethack, but fairly new to Angband. I am also an extremely long term MMORPG player, and one thing I know for certain, players hate artificial tedium. Make the dungeon as hard as you need to. The town level, and spells primarily used in town, should be easy, simple, straightforward, and give predictable results.

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Old October 7, 2010, 23:13   #2
Derakon
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You shouldn't need to synchronize enchantments any more, now that the quiver has been added. Ammo in the quiver takes up a fixed amount of space (one slot per 99 units of ammo, regardless of combination or type).

As for choosing the brand, *shrug*.
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Old October 8, 2010, 00:10   #3
Sincro
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Yes, the quiver is nice, but there's a limit to how many different types of ammo can be inside it. The limit is 10, iirc.
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Old October 8, 2010, 01:03   #4
Tiburon Silverflame
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This isn't gonna get much traction, because it's just not important enough.

Fine, so you use 4 or 5 slots for those arrows. You still have 2 or 3 brands in your quiver. Once a slot has only a handful, make another batch.

OK, the issues you mention are mildly annoying, but it's no big deal to manage within their confines.
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Old October 8, 2010, 04:13   #5
fizzix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiburon Silverflame View Post
This isn't gonna get much traction, because it's just not important enough.

Fine, so you use 4 or 5 slots for those arrows. You still have 2 or 3 brands in your quiver. Once a slot has only a handful, make another batch.

OK, the issues you mention are mildly annoying, but it's no big deal to manage within their confines.
There's also a sizable amount of people (myself included) that think the branding and enchanting spells should be eliminated altogether.
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Old October 8, 2010, 04:44   #6
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
There's also a sizable amount of people (myself included) that think the branding and enchanting spells should be eliminated altogether.
Me too.

OTOH, how many *inventory* slots are you devoting to ammo (i.e., how many inventory slots do your 10 quiver slots add up to)? 2? 3? Certainly not 4. I am in the process of trying to finish a ranger (fought Sauron underpowered at cl40 without rDisen or acid ammo, had to bail, long story for AAR) and I found I normally used 1 slot, sometimes 2, I think once or twice 3. Even if you devoted 3, and I would rather be carrying some other useful stuff, you're talking about what, ~25 arrows per stack? That should be plenty. I wouldn't waste my time combining small stacks. YMMV.
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Old October 8, 2010, 06:11   #7
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sincro View Post
Specifically, the spells in Tenser's transformation.

I have issues with 2 of them: Enchant Weapon, and Elemental Brand.

First, the easy issue: Why is it not possible to choose which brand you get?
This doesn't matter for long, because I think common consensus is that that branding spell should not stay in Ranger arsenal of spells. It was overpowered when it was introduced and it is overpowered still with weakened artillery. It was just mistake to introduce them in a first place.
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Old October 26, 2010, 08:24   #8
Pete Mack
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@Timo--
Is it really overpowered with weakened multipliers? I always thought the real problem with Rangers was the extra 2(!) shots. Branding currently doubles damage vs vulnerable monsters with an x3 bow. There are plenty of other ways to get that, most notably reaching cl 20 as a ranger. With an x5 bow, branding (or Slay Dragon) only gives an x1.6 bonus, a pretty big step down from x3.0.

I haven't had time for a lot of games of Angband since that change, but I found Tenser's a much lesser benefit for Rogues. (I very rarely play Rangers, but I suspect 2 extra shots is still 1 too many.)
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Old October 26, 2010, 09:39   #9
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
@Timo--
Is it really overpowered with weakened multipliers?
Yes!

Ranger problem is not fast shooting, it is the ammo he can get. Especially now that there is a quiver the last obstacle Ranger had is removed: before that he had to manage inventory to carry multiple different stacks of ammo. Branding spell just increases that abuse. You have basically unlimited multi-branded ammo which makes Rangers every shot x2 to nearly any target.

Multi-shot is not that big issue with Rangers now that we also have Slings of Buckland. x4 sling with three shots makes everyone near equal to Ranger with Bard and equal with Belthronding. Even in old days you could get high-damage +1 shot HXbow shooter which made you have only x8 vs x12 Ranger (4x3 or 3x4) unless using Bard (Lothlorien bows didn't exist), not falling that far behind Rangers potential damage.
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Old October 26, 2010, 14:50   #10
fizzix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
@Timo--
Is it really overpowered with weakened multipliers? I always thought the real problem with Rangers was the extra 2(!) shots. Branding currently doubles damage vs vulnerable monsters with an x3 bow. There are plenty of other ways to get that, most notably reaching cl 20 as a ranger. With an x5 bow, branding (or Slay Dragon) only gives an x1.6 bonus, a pretty big step down from x3.0.
It's certainly a lot better now than it was before. Melee is often an option over archery where before it was a no-brainer. However, based on playing without extra shots and nerfed ammo, I'd still vote for:

1: removing extra shots from ranger and changing to extra might (with bows)
2: removing branding spells altogether

You're still going to use ranged attacks to kill most charge drainers, but now at least, Gothmog won't be a complete joke for 3 classes.
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