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Old October 9, 2010, 20:44   #11
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
This is exactly how it works now. Both Eddie and d_m support my original position, but I'm now wavering. Can you say a bit more about why the swaps scenario you describe above is a bad thing? It seems quite interesting to me.
It changes things too much. Palantir becomes rod of clairvoyance, Taratol and Tulkas rods of speed, Celeborn rod of banishment etc.

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Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Do you mean the outputs, like damage or detection radius or whatever? Or do you mean that recharge times should decrease with wearer level??
Outputs. Sleep gets stronger, bolts, beams, balls and LoS -damage increases with level and so on. Of course I have no objection of reducing the recharge times as well
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Old October 9, 2010, 21:14   #12
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The ring of delving. It should need to be worn to be recharged else it is just a rod of stone to mud. I really like these rings but never wear them full time. I activate it, wait for it to recharge, then put it in my pack. If it recharges in the pack, it serves no purpose as a ring.

My assumption has always been that wearable items need to be worn, and rods need to be in the pack in order to recharge. If seems odd to me that an item would recharge while on while lying the ground, Angband itself forbids it. I vote in favor of needing to wield (or be in possession of) an item in order for it to recharge. Maybe it could charge at a much slower rate, 1/10, if in the pack (weldable) or on the ground (any).

Maybe we need to tackle the question of how do items recharge?
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Old October 9, 2010, 22:37   #13
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
It changes things too much. Palantir becomes rod of clairvoyance, Taratol and Tulkas rods of speed, Celeborn rod of banishment etc.
I don't think this is all that bad. The only one that's really advantageous to having it charge in the pack is the palantir.
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Old October 9, 2010, 22:48   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzkill View Post
The ring of delving. It should need to be worn to be recharged else it is just a rod of stone to mud. I really like these rings but never wear them full time. I activate it, wait for it to recharge, then put it in my pack. If it recharges in the pack, it serves no purpose as a ring.

My assumption has always been that wearable items need to be worn, and rods need to be in the pack in order to recharge. If seems odd to me that an item would recharge while on while lying the ground, Angband itself forbids it. I vote in favor of needing to wield (or be in possession of) an item in order for it to recharge. Maybe it could charge at a much slower rate, 1/10, if in the pack (weldable) or on the ground (any).

Maybe we need to tackle the question of how do items recharge?
Ok, you've given me another thought.

Eddie, d_m: instead of stuff recharging everywhere, how about ONLY in the player's possession? So rods will no longer recharge on the ground but only in the pack. That still leaves the question of whether activatable wearables recharge in the pack or only while worn ...
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Old October 9, 2010, 22:49   #15
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I don't think this is all that bad. The only one that's really advantageous to having it charge in the pack is the palantir.
That's funny. I would have said the Palantir is the one that doesn't matter.

With the Palantir, you use it once per level and when you have cleared the level you put it on and rest before descending to the next level. It makes little difference unless you are in a game turncount competition.

Something like Taratol or Tulkas that you might want to use multiple times per level seems much more relevant. It doesn't bother me that these would be like rods of speed, and in fact I think it would be an improvement, but at least I can see merit in the opposing view.
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Old October 9, 2010, 22:51   #16
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Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Ok, you've given me another thought.

Eddie, d_m: instead of stuff recharging everywhere, how about ONLY in the player's possession? So rods will no longer recharge on the ground but only in the pack. That still leaves the question of whether activatable wearables recharge in the pack or only while worn ...
That seems wrong to me. If you want to differentiate wielded vs nonwielded, I disagree but I see the point. However, the backpack is equivalent to the ground in all cases except elemental damage.
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Old October 9, 2010, 23:02   #17
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
I don't think this is all that bad. The only one that's really advantageous to having it charge in the pack is the palantir.
Tulkas at least would become a way more powerful with this change for paladins, priests and warriors. Same with Taratol. Palantir changes a lot.

OTOH I'm against Palantir being into game as a lightsource in first place, it is not a lightsource, that's like using your GPS-locator screen as light source. Arkenstone should be enough deep down and it does not become a swap-item even with this change (with clairvoyance activation). If we want a Palantir in the game it should be a artifact rod, activate and recharge from/at pack with drawback of aggravating every single monster in LoS like scroll of aggravate monster.

BTW I think we need to change Arkenstone activation. It is currently only artifact lightsource that doesn't reveal dungeon structure. It's activation is pretty useless as it is now. Detection+magic mapping would be better instead, or clairvoyance like it used to have.
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Old October 10, 2010, 01:01   #18
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Originally Posted by PowerDiver View Post
That's funny. I would have said the Palantir is the one that doesn't matter.

With the Palantir, you use it once per level and when you have cleared the level you put it on and rest before descending to the next level. It makes little difference unless you are in a game turncount competition.

Something like Taratol or Tulkas that you might want to use multiple times per level seems much more relevant. It doesn't bother me that these would be like rods of speed, and in fact I think it would be an improvement, but at least I can see merit in the opposing view.
Palantir mainly because of aggravation, but it's a minor point. At the very least I consider aggravating the monsters around you to be on par with the chance of spawning more monsters because you rested and waited for your ring to recharge before removing it.

Nevertheless, I still think having artifacts recharge in the pack or home would be nice.
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Old October 10, 2010, 02:20   #19
Timo Pietilš
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
Palantir mainly because of aggravation, but it's a minor point. At the very least I consider aggravating the monsters around you to be on par with the chance of spawning more monsters because you rested and waited for your ring to recharge before removing it.

Nevertheless, I still think having artifacts recharge in the pack or home would be nice.
"nice" is something that should not be used to rationalize game flow. It makes things simplier, but price for that is that it removes one of the things player needs to consider and do, making game more dull and easier. This is one of those changes that moves Angband closer to "start game, press and hold enter and win it". You don't need to think about wearing a inferior equipment and whether or not it is worth for benefit for activation. It just becomes consideration "do I need the activation" instead.
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Old October 10, 2010, 04:18   #20
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
"nice" is something that should not be used to rationalize game flow. It makes things simplier, but price for that is that it removes one of the things player needs to consider and do, making game more dull and easier. This is one of those changes that moves Angband closer to "start game, press and hold enter and win it". You don't need to think about wearing a inferior equipment and whether or not it is worth for benefit for activation. It just becomes consideration "do I need the activation" instead.
I disagree entirely, mostly because there's relatively no penalty to waiting until your item recharges. So in reality, what this does is remove the tedium of resting until recharge before removing the item.
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