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Old August 18, 2018, 00:10   #1
Quirk
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Plans for Sil-Q 1.4.1 patch

There's going to be a 1.4.1 patch in the not too distant future. There are a couple of bugs I have addressed locally and not released - most notably that I broke some of the dependencies of Opportunist when switching it with Exchange Places so e.g. Rapid Attack depends on Exchange Places now (I did not intend this).

(I still however think Opportunist being so good people invested in Stealth just to take it indicates it was a little too cheap - I'm concerned with the implementation being wrong, not the idea).

There are one or two other things I will probably tweak as well. wobbly has suggested a buff to Song of Staying, and I might strengthen or change Thresholds and/or Overwhelming since nobody seems to have been tempted very much by them as yet.

I have a couple of directions I might also look at; one is taking a look at porting Sil-Q to Android using Shaosil's code, the other is trying to make 50' a bit more interesting - currently it's quite basic rooms and wolves and feedback on Sil I've had elsewhere indicates it's turning some people off.

I'm willing to listen to other suggestions if people have things to say, or if people have strong opinions on Android or the game start, that would be good to know too.
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Old August 18, 2018, 07:04   #2
wobbly
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If you want to nerf opportunist make it more like controlled retreat where you don't get the freebie if you move. That takes away flank/dodging & the constant free hits chasing.
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Old August 18, 2018, 17:19   #3
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For 50'; what about Snaga slave gangs with an Orc leader, similar to orc captains? The Snagas flee if the (larger) Orc is killed. Would introduce the player to some morale/ai interactions early on.

Remove thorn monsters. They're more thematic than Molds granted, but having ancient heroes of old fight shrubbery is still odd (as are plants growing underground). Alternatively, have them be immune to non-slashing melee damage (or fire arrows), remove their attacks and have them attempt damage/confuse the player on turns @ tries to hit them in melee (or possibly have them blocking LOS but not the player, instead damaging the player as @ moves through them).

Have enemies fleeing down stairs count the same as killed enemies for xp purposes. Change "you have killed X.." to "you have defeated X.." for non-Uniques to clarify this.

Starting with a set amount of torches and a set weight on the curved blade spawned. Not that people scum this, but the possibility is there.

Change light source progression from torch -> Lantern -> Feanorian Lamp to Lantern -> Jewel -> Feanorian Lamp. Burning pitch-on-a-stick is a poor choice of indoor illumination unless you literally want to put the place to the torch and not historically accurate.
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Old August 19, 2018, 15:41   #4
Quirk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wobbly
If you want to nerf opportunist make it more like controlled retreat
I don't mind it being quite powerful, I just feel that the power level was such that it was often being taken as the only investment in Stealth, and Exchange Places was more expensive and more rarely useful.

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For 50'; what about Snaga slave gangs with an Orc leader, similar to orc captains? The Snagas flee if the (larger) Orc is killed. Would introduce the player to some morale/ai interactions early on.
This is a good general idea, but Snaga I think in the books is the name of a particular orc, and we don't have much orc differentiation in the first age IIRC - the Uruk-hai don't turn up until the third age. More distressingly, I think all the basic colours for the 'o' symbol have been used. Morgoth's slaves were IIRC also men and elves rather than orcs - I have considered representing this, but doing it justice is a substantially larger job. Also I think it's a bit too similar to the way things play out later with orc captains. I am quite pleased with the way the brood spiders have added a different dynamic, and I'd like something that provides a different set of challenges for the starting player without being too dangerous.

I was toying with the idea of some kind of weak shade or shadow, perhaps one that saps light (along with a greater abundance of light sources including e.g. rooms which have removable lights).

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Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
Remove thorn monsters. They're more thematic than Molds granted, but having ancient heroes of old fight shrubbery is still odd (as are plants growing underground). Alternatively, have them be immune to non-slashing melee damage (or fire arrows), remove their attacks and have them attempt damage/confuse the player on turns @ tries to hit them in melee (or possibly have them blocking LOS but not the player, instead damaging the player as @ moves through them).
Your points are reasonable but I fear that this makes 50' and below look barer than it already is, and there would need to be even more new additions to bridge the gap.

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Have enemies fleeing down stairs count the same as killed enemies for xp purposes. Change "you have killed X.." to "you have defeated X.." for non-Uniques to clarify this.
I tried this in October last year, but testers came back claiming this was probably too good. You still get some experience for chasing non-unique enemies off the level, but it's lower than killing them.

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Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
Starting with a set amount of torches and a set weight on the curved blade spawned. Not that people scum this, but the possibility is there.
I have actually been tempted to make the starting loadouts vary by race e.g. shortbow, dagger and a scarce few arrows for Sindar Falathrim, or a couple of throwing axes and a helm for Naugrim. I'm not very worried by start scumming though.

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Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
Change light source progression from torch -> Lantern -> Feanorian Lamp to Lantern -> Jewel -> Feanorian Lamp. Burning pitch-on-a-stick is a poor choice of indoor illumination unless you literally want to put the place to the torch and not historically accurate.
This leads into the more awkward question in level generation as to what sort of rooms these are even meant to be - with wolves and serpents and bats and giant spiders wandering around we might anticipate something more organic and cavernous, but forges and organised troops suggest something more deliberately fashioned. Really it would be good to have different level generation for different parts of Angband, inhabited by different sorts of enemies, but this is a big task and the result would be quite a different game from Sil.

But broadly, with regard to carrying torches down tunnels, this may or may not be historical, but it is certainly Tolkien-canon - Bilbo and the dwarves explore Smaug's lair with torches for instance.
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Old August 19, 2018, 16:34   #5
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Re: Exchange places. Strong now. Since you made Morgoth hard to kill it's been my go to for removing a Sil from the throne room the easy way. Honestly archery does what opportunist does better just less conveniently.
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Old August 29, 2018, 20:18   #6
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The orc falls asleep.
The orc turns to fight!

Ok, you can not fix that 1. That's hilarious
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Old August 30, 2018, 09:21   #7
Bill Peterson
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I just picked up the latest Sil-Q thinking I would take a look at the graphics again and you've disabled the menu items. Was that really necessary? Were people getting confused by choosing graphics tiles and seeing that they weren't correct?

Never mind, I remembered that you have to create a character before the graphics get enabled. Tried to delete this message to no avail.

Last edited by Bill Peterson; August 30, 2018 at 09:35.
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Old August 30, 2018, 09:48   #8
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Originally Posted by Bill Peterson View Post
I just picked up the latest Sil-Q thinking I would take a look at the graphics again and you've disabled the menu items. Was that really necessary? Were people getting confused by choosing graphics tiles and seeing that they weren't correct?
Haven't touched it. I note the graphics menu does have all the options greyed out on Windows, but the same is true of Sil 1.3.

You can however modify the tiles being used via the INI file, setting it from 0 to 1, 2 etc.
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Old August 30, 2018, 11:17   #9
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I guess all the tiles exist from V? The only thing I can think of that doesn't are the plants.
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Old August 30, 2018, 19:22   #10
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Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
I guess all the tiles exist from V? The only thing I can think of that doesn't are the plants.
Yes, all the graphics files and code from Vanilla are still in place. Unfortunately, the person who developed Sil wasn't interested in graphics and didn't follow the protocols for defining the images.

I did some work on the Gervais graphics for Sil-Q a few months ago. Sometimes it was as simple as changing the .prf files to point to the proper image, but some ASCII characters were defined in other files. I was reluctant to change these new files while they were changing.
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