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Old July 27, 2010, 11:07   #1
Ycombinator
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Slight inconsistency in monster resists?

I've just noticed that while Greater Balrogs resist fire, electricity and poison, Lungorthin resists only fire, and Gothmog — fire and electricity. Does it make any sense? Honestly, I think Gothmog should be considerably more powerful for his level.
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Old July 27, 2010, 11:58   #2
Timo Pietilä
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I've just noticed that while Greater Balrogs resist fire, electricity and poison, Lungorthin resists only fire, and Gothmog — fire and electricity. Does it make any sense? Honestly, I think Gothmog should be considerably more powerful for his level.
You could remove poison resist from Greater Balrogs. Or add it to Gothmog. Lungorthin isn't that dangerous anyway, more like unique Lesser Balrog than a greater one.

I think we should do a slight makeover for pretty big bunch of monsters in monster.txt. JLE-patch monsters were added to vanilla pretty much unedited, and there might be some small things to fix like that one and the fact that both Basilisks didn't have FORCE_SLEEP flags (that one was the first turn spell preventing flag, now I think it doesn't matter anymore). Monsters should at least be in mlvl-order, even if that breaks savefile compatibility for currently running char (make some informational warning when converting).

I also think that it would be good if all or at least nearly all of the monsters should have some hole in their resistances, preferably a themed one (like undeads not resisting fire with just few exceptions). Something like Mim resisting every element just doesn't make sense to me. Mim is an low-level dwarf unique, not some übermonster.
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Old July 27, 2010, 14:07   #3
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä View Post
I also think that it would be good if all or at least nearly all of the monsters should have some hole in their resistances, preferably a themed one (like undeads not resisting fire with just few exceptions). Something like Mim resisting every element just doesn't make sense to me. Mim is an low-level dwarf unique, not some übermonster.
You might have a case for Mim or Lorgan but I actually like that there are many monsters that have no resistance holes. The angels, fundin, ancalagon, vecna etc. The lack of resistance holes makes these monsters very challenging. IMO, Azriel is one of the most difficult monsters in the game, and probably should be something like dlevel 90. If you made him vulnerable to fire, he'd be fine at his current level. It really makes that much of a difference. I'm fine with adding poison and electricity resistance to Gothmog and Lungorthin.

In fact, I would consider adding cold and acid resistance to Gothmog. I'd also prefer it if Sauron resisted acid also. It's time to toughen up these guys. They just aren't scary enough!
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Old July 27, 2010, 14:33   #4
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Something like Mim resisting every element just doesn't make sense to me. Mim is an low-level dwarf unique, not some übermonster.
Well, maybe this doesn't make thematic sense, but combination of immunity to basic elements, speed and annoying disenchantment attack (which you are very unlikely to resist at his native depth) makes Mim scary opponent, but at the same time DROP_GREAT flag makes him worth fighting early. IMO Mim is one of the most interesting monsters.
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Old July 27, 2010, 14:38   #5
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Why should monster resistances give them immunity while resistance for players is not immunity. Would it be possible to make monster resistance work like player resistance? Possibly even making it variable ie lesser Balrog resists 30% fire damage while greater balrog resist 60% and lungorthin is still fire immune or resist 90%
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Old July 27, 2010, 16:06   #6
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Resistant monsters are not immune (that's what the IM_* flags are for); however, they do render elemental attacks sufficiently weaker to not be worth employing.
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Old July 27, 2010, 16:17   #7
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
You might have a case for Mim or Lorgan but I actually like that there are many monsters that have no resistance holes. The angels, fundin, ancalagon, vecna etc. The lack of resistance holes makes these monsters very challenging. IMO, Azriel is one of the most difficult monsters in the game, and probably should be something like dlevel 90. If you made him vulnerable to fire, he'd be fine at his current level. It really makes that much of a difference. I'm fine with adding poison and electricity resistance to Gothmog and Lungorthin.
There are few themed monsters with every resist: Angels, beholders, MHD:s, elementals, mobile jellies. That's just fine, but those types with no thematic "resist all" there should be a resistance hole (Ancalagon can breathe all elements, so naturally it also resists all of those. It is basically a Tiamat reborn).

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In fact, I would consider adding cold and acid resistance to Gothmog. I'd also prefer it if Sauron resisted acid also. It's time to toughen up these guys. They just aren't scary enough!
How about removing branding rings, acid and poison brands and ammo branding spells first? Make ego-ammunition more rare? Reverting to way it used to be? We are in a boosting things loop. Boost monsters, boost items, boost monsters and so on and on. Eventually we have weapons and armor with every possible boost and monsters with every resist and ability there is.
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Old July 27, 2010, 17:09   #8
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä View Post
How about removing branding rings, acid and poison brands and ammo branding spells first? Make ego-ammunition more rare? Reverting to way it used to be? We are in a boosting things loop. Boost monsters, boost items, boost monsters and so on and on. Eventually we have weapons and armor with every possible boost and monsters with every resist and ability there is.
Dude, you're preaching to the choir here. I think the branding spells are terrible. Although I think ego ammunition is about spot on with rarity. I'll often find enough to use on about half of the uniques, forcing me to figure out a way to kill the other half. I find holy might ammo about once every 5 or 6 games it seems. That's probably about right.

The branding rings can go too, although I'd really like to see an easier way for warriors to get double resist. Right now afaik =lightning is the only way for warriors to get double resist. I don't think that the branding ring removal will have nearly as much of an impact though. There's a section of the game where branding rings are useful, but they usually lose out to =speed, =con and =power in the endgame.
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Old July 27, 2010, 19:28   #9
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at the same time DROP_GREAT flag makes him worth fighting early.
I thought that DROP_GREAT had been downgraded to the same effect as DROP_GOOD?

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