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Old February 3, 2014, 12:46   #11
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
This is not the case anymore, at least in 3.5. Waking up takes a turn.
As in waking up is one 100 energy action? Or that monster is at 0 energy when it wakes up?

Too tired to think. Need coffee...

How does this energy-based turn system work again? If player hits monster with successful sleep ray does that immediately zero that monster energy count? What actually happens with action like that?
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Old February 3, 2014, 14:57   #12
Derakon
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Even if the monster wastes a turn waking up, if that's always what happens on the turn after the player sleeps them, I don't think anyone will ever use Sleep Monster. It has to last for, at bare minimum, 2 turns, since otherwise you're trading one player turn for one monster turn, which will always be a bad trade. But honestly I'd rather make it be Hold Monster or something, where the monster is paralyzed until the timer runs out or they take damage. That way it's (potentially) useful to everyone, albeit in niche cases still.
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Old February 3, 2014, 15:04   #13
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Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
That way it's (potentially) useful to everyone, albeit in niche cases still.
We should have both.

Hold monster - paralyzes it for N turns, N is based on your device skill. For low device skill characters, N < 1. Note it *always* succeeds, except for immune monsters. There isn't a saving throw. You should be able to do the calculation in your head. Even a 2 turn paralysis is useful. Paralysis is an offensive spell, like slow monster.

Sleep monster - monster saves as normal (these need to be adjusted anyway). Monster goes to the highest level of sleep and wakes up when it takes damage. Sleep is an escaping spell, used to get everything off of your back.
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Old February 3, 2014, 15:55   #14
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I wouldn't mind having sleep etc. be a roll where the caster/[U]ser/etc can make some check to sleep monsters 0-3 turns or 0-2 turns.
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Old February 3, 2014, 16:22   #15
Derakon
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Originally Posted by fizzix View Post
We should have both.
Are they strongly-enough differentiated? I mean, they're both "monster cannot do anything" effects; just, one as described has no save and doesn't last very long, while the other does have a save and lasts...how long? Or were you intending that Hold Monster not expire when the monster is damaged? That would definitely be a differentiator. But finding the sweet spot where it's useful without being overpowered would be difficult, I think.
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Old February 3, 2014, 18:34   #16
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Can we talk about blindness here too? It's always annoyed me that wands of light don't temporarily blind monsters even if they don't do damage. Light attacks both damage and blind the player, and I don't like that asymmetry.
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Old February 3, 2014, 18:36   #17
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FAAngband

FAAngband already has it :-) It is possible to slow and stun even the most dangerous foes and it is FUN.
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Old February 3, 2014, 19:27   #18
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One thing that could make status ailments more exciting would be to increase the stretch of the game over which they have some chance to take action on monsters, but if the monster makes it's save, then the player has to make a save (or save once out of two chances or something) or the effect turns around on the player for some number of turns.
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Old February 3, 2014, 20:15   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Are they strongly-enough differentiated? I mean, they're both "monster cannot do anything" effects; just, one as described has no save and doesn't last very long, while the other does have a save and lasts...how long? Or were you intending that Hold Monster not expire when the monster is damaged? That would definitely be a differentiator. But finding the sweet spot where it's useful without being overpowered would be difficult, I think.
Yes, I was thinking that paralysis means you get to bash it for free until the paralysis ends.

Letting the monster move on the turn it becomes unparalyzed, but not on the "waking up" turn also helps differentiate. a 2 turn paralysis is equivalent to a slow that you need to re-cast every other turn. It's marginally useful, but slow is better. A 3 turn paralysis is far better than a slow though. So we'd have to keep useful paralysis effects between 2 and about 3.5 turns.
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Old February 3, 2014, 20:52   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Your "meters" suggestion sounds like just making the effects stack. Is there a difference I'm not understanding?
No, it's pretty much the same thing. Just wanted to flesh out the idea of "cumulative" status effects as buzzkill mentioned a bit more. I see in your original post you said you didn't want status effects to stack. What's your reasoning on that? I think making them all-or-nothing just makes the problem of them being either overpowered or worthless worse - they're either useful or they're not at whatever strength they're set at, and there's no shades of gray enabling different players to make different choices as to how much to use them.
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