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Old March 9, 2017, 20:30   #451
Derakon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
This is a slightly confusing, but it's two different types of darkness. The darkness that's cast as a spell is just removing light; the effect you were resisting was getting blinded, but it doesn't do you any damage. Then there's a stronger form of Dark that does damage - that's the one in Darkness breaths and storms. So the rune you learnt was the resist for the second one.
Why don't we change the "cover in darkness" spell into a weak darkness ball spell? The only mechanical changes would be a) it'd deal some damage, and b) it would only darken the squares hit by the ball instead of the entire room the player is in. Well, I guess and c) it would potentially damage neighboring enemies. The hard/soft division for light and darkness elements is weird and confusing IMO; make everything hard (i.e. damage-dealing) and you remove one more "weird undocumented thing" about Angband, without really losing anything important.

As an added benefit, Magic Mushrooms would theoretically be able to kill the PC.
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Old March 10, 2017, 01:38   #452
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If you try a staff of Remove Curse when you're not carrying any cursed items, you get the "You have no curses to remove" message, but the staff does not ID.
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Old March 10, 2017, 12:04   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotug View Post
I've already posted this bug once in a different game and different scenario (and I believe a different game version), but I am going to post it again:

The Drider surrounds you in Darkness.
Darknesss surrounds you.
You resist the effect!

You see a scroll of Identify.
You read the scroll of Identify.
You have learned the rune of resist Dark.

Surely I should have learned this rune when the Drider surrounded me in Darkness and I resisted?
The drider surrounded you with "darknesss" not "darkness", that's why you didn't notice.
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Old March 10, 2017, 13:14   #454
Ingwe Ingweron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
This is a slightly confusing, but it's two different types of darkness. The darkness that's cast as a spell is just removing light; the effect you were resisting was getting blinded, but it doesn't do you any damage. Then there's a stronger form of Dark that does damage - that's the one in Darkness breaths and storms. So the rune you learnt was the resist for the second one.
The above statement could add to confusion when saying there are "two different types of darkness ... darkness that's cast as a spell is just removing light ... but it doesn't do you any damage."

More accurately, perhaps -- there are two types of darkness. One merely "creates darkness", which may be cast as a spell, and the other is Dark, which may come as breath weapon or may be invoked as a spell in the form of a Darkness Storm.

E.g., Ungoliant - may breathe darkness (400) [this breath damage estimate decreases as the monster's hit points decline] or may cast spells intelligently which invoke darkness storms (475) [as a spell, this darkness damage will not decline even if the monster's hit points are diminished]; versus, say, an illusionist, whose spell merely "creates darkness".
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Old March 10, 2017, 13:21   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Why don't we change the "cover in darkness" spell into a weak darkness ball spell? The only mechanical changes would be a) it'd deal some damage, and b) it would only darken the squares hit by the ball instead of the entire room the player is in. Well, I guess and c) it would potentially damage neighboring enemies. The hard/soft division for light and darkness elements is weird and confusing IMO; make everything hard (i.e. damage-dealing) and you remove one more "weird undocumented thing" about Angband, without really losing anything important.

As an added benefit, Magic Mushrooms would theoretically be able to kill the PC.
I don't see why it is a problem to have two different types of spells that affect light conditions. The fact that "create darkness" does enshroud an entire room in darkness is one of the small tactical difficulties presented. I also find the "remove one more weird undocumented thing" argument unpersuasive; if it's undocumented, simply document it and, voila, problem solved.
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― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
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Old March 10, 2017, 15:19   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
I don't see why it is a problem to have two different types of spells that affect light conditions. The fact that "create darkness" does enshroud an entire room in darkness is one of the small tactical difficulties presented. I also find the "remove one more weird undocumented thing" argument unpersuasive; if it's undocumented, simply document it and, voila, problem solved.
What's confusing is that there are two things that have the same name but behave differently, and especially that there are sources of light that only damage creatures that are vulnerable to bright light, and other sources that damage everything.

Fixing the problem by documenting it is an unsatisfying solution, not least because people don't read the documentation. The game should be self-documenting (through its UI and in-game actions) as much as possible.

I'm fine with having the "create darkness" spell still darken rooms, but it really ought to deal damage to everything that isn't immune to darkness. Ditto all light-creating spells should hurt everything. The damage may be a merely nominal amount but it shouldn't be nothing.
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Old March 10, 2017, 17:19   #457
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light - darkness: affects rooms, does no damage

radiance - gloom: affects specified area, does damage
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Old March 10, 2017, 18:09   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estie View Post
light - darkness: affects rooms, does no damage

radiance - gloom: affects specified area, does damage
I'd go with 'Shadow' rather than gloom.
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Old March 10, 2017, 18:30   #459
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In selling games, shopkeepers now offer the correct price for unidentified items, meaning you can guess what they are by looking at offered prices without actually selling them. (Oddly, though, the shopkeeper will still give the "Yipee!" or similar message when you sell them a valuable item, as if they think they've ripped you off.)
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Old March 10, 2017, 18:45   #460
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I would accept "surrounds you with shadow" for the darkness-causing spell and "darkness" for the elemental damage source. It doesn't really address the underlying oddness of having two kinds of light/dark but it's an easy patch fix for the specific issue of explaining why the rDark rune doesn't ID.
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