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Old February 28, 2017, 22:32   #11
Ingwe Ingweron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Put another way: who actually still uses the standard roller?
I agree, that usually I think of what class, then race, that I want to play (even though the selection process is actually the reverse), then use point-based allocation. Standard roller in that situation is crazy, because you have already chosen the race/class combo and could end up with devastating stats for the mix. BUT, what I'm arguing for is to make standard roller relevant again. Like a player that no longer finds standarts satisfying and so opts for the challenge of randarts, if it worked as I'm proposing for the standard roller, choosing the class could become an element of the fun.
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Old February 28, 2017, 22:40   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
  • Point-based stat allocations currently react to the race/class stats and the class, rather than being specified, so (appealing as it is) I don't think it really works
Ah, I understand.

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  • I think deciding to play a given class is probably the most common way to approach a game of Angband. I can see changing the standard roller to act like this maybe

I'm still arguing for it for the standard roller as a way to add variety to the game, much as randarts and ironman add variety, once one is tired of the regular gameplay.

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  • This is usually handled by just starting from your previous savefile - is there any reason not to do that? Doing this would certainly take some work, but maybe it's the correct thing to do, I need to think further. Any opinions?

I use a standard .prf file with all my inscriptions, keymaps, and subwindows set up so that no matter what race/class I play, it is all loaded quickly without me having to reenter all of those things. Restarting from a savefile really doesn't get you there except for one particular race/class combo. I'm just thinking it would be nice not to have to reenter the user options every time as well.
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Old February 28, 2017, 22:57   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingwe Ingweron View Post
I use a standard .prf file with all my inscriptions, keymaps, and subwindows set up so that no matter what race/class I play, it is all loaded quickly without me having to reenter all of those things. Restarting from a savefile really doesn't get you there except for one particular race/class combo. I'm just thinking it would be nice not to have to reenter the user options every time as well.
My point is that the savefile provides your user-interface and other options, and then you load your standard .prf file for the inscriptions etc. I can't see a more efficient way of doing this, or a reason not to - what am I missing?
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Old February 28, 2017, 23:59   #14
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Ought to consider removing manual point allocation. It gets the new player way too far into arcane game mechanics if they want to make a good choice.
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Old March 1, 2017, 00:05   #15
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Not so arcane as all that. It's described right up front in the 'character creation' help page.

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Ought to consider removing manual point allocation. It gets the new player way too far into arcane game mechanics if they want to make a good choice.
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Old March 1, 2017, 01:35   #16
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The character creation screen now instructs the player on how to attain maximum bpr with realistic early game weapon choices? Good change if true. Still seems better to just do it for the player rather than rely on their diligence in reading in-game help.
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Old March 1, 2017, 01:41   #17
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I think defaulting to manual is fine, but the starting point should be fully invested point allocation that is presumed optimal.
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Old March 1, 2017, 02:08   #18
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Yes. Basically 17/16/16 or something close to it, where 17 is the primary stat (INT/WIS for full casters; STR for everyone else) and closing out with 16 CON, and either STR for fullcasters or DEX, for everyone else. Swap DEX and STR if it improves max blows.
Edit:
alternatively, split points between CON and the tertiary stat, either DEX for full casters or the casting stat for half-casters. That's probably more reasonable.
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Old March 1, 2017, 02:40   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Mack View Post
Yes. Basically 17/16/16 or something close to it, where 17 is the primary stat (INT/WIS for full casters; STR for everyone else) and closing out with 16 CON, and either STR for fullcasters or DEX, for everyone else. Swap DEX and STR if it improves max blows.
Edit:
alternatively, split points between CON and the tertiary stat, either DEX for full casters or the casting stat for half-casters. That's probably more reasonable.
Going back to the idea of moving default starting stats out to the edit files, how about setting a priority level (rating how important each stat is to the class so the auto-roller knows how to prioritise them) and minimum value for each stat in class.txt? Upon picking a class, auto-allocate enough points to bring stats up to the specified minimums, and then allow the player the choice of whether to assign any remaining points automatically, manually or randomly.

That would allow for semi-randomised characters and let inexperienced players fiddle with manual choices without creating totally unplayable characters with truly terrible stats. (And if you're an advanced player who wants to be able to randomly roll unplayable challenge characters, you can just go into the edit files and alter the fixed minimums.)
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Old March 1, 2017, 03:38   #20
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My point is that the savefile provides your user-interface and other options, and then you load your standard .prf file for the inscriptions etc. I can't see a more efficient way of doing this, or a reason not to - what am I missing?
So, you see how being able to load inscriptions, etc., easily and in mass to any new savefile is efficient, but you don't see how being able to load user interface options to any new savefile easily and in mass would also be efficient?

Only if I reuse the savefile can I have the benefit of the user-interface options chosen? A new save requires reimputing the options one by one? Why should that be different than the keymaps, inscriptions and subwindow options that I can load in mass? What am I missing in my explanation?
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― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
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