Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 11, 2011, 04:35   #1
Xaxyx
Scout
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 35
Xaxyx is on a distinguished road
Cheater!

After much trial and tribulation, I have achieved my glorious second victory against Morgoth. This time with 3.2 and the shiny new random artifacts feature. Another high-elf ranger. You can find my dump here.

Quite a few impressive finds, I feel obliged to admit, including a splendiferous long bow (just what an aspiring ranger needs) and a double-immunity cloak, resulting in a total of three immunities. My kit was so thorough that both ring slots were free for =speed -- overkill really, but who am I to argue?

I do seem to finally have a better feel for the power curve, figuring out what I can handle and what I need to avoid. Similarly, I've also made progress on the *real* source of death of my characters -- me. I keep an eye out for boredom, and have learned to take things verrry slowwwwly when I sit down to play after a break as I seem to have a tendency at such times to rush in headlong and eat nasty spells to the face.

When I engaged Morgoth, I started doing that hockey-puck thing again, shooting him around corners. But after a while, I decided to be brazen, and just shoot him in the open. The fight became much more interesting -- healing from spell damage, teleporting stuff away, destructing when things got out of control. I feel like I'm ready to try out other classes, and perhaps spice things up with a few difficulty toggles -- disconnected stairs, and such.

Just one problem, though. I'm a cheater.

You see, I never set foot in Angband anymore without turning on "Know complete monster info". It seems foolhardy to me to do otherwise. There's just too many obscure baddies lurking around down there that can obliterate characters instantly. Do I have to expend an entire character's life just to learn that ethereal dragons or drolems or (insert random funky unique with bizarro ranged attack here) can rip my head off at a whim even if I have the "correct" resistance? That just seems like way, way too expensive a price to pay for knowledge.

That's meta-game knowledge already, in fact. My "new" character has no way of knowing what some crazy half-dragon, half-potato can spit out of its nose. Yet monster abilities are constant from game to game. Indeed, I challenge anyone to look me in the eye and claim that anyone has any real chance at winning this game without knowing *precisely* what every single one of these enemies is actually capable of.

So ultimately, everyone's already got their characters skulking carefully around the dungeon based on knowledge not directly available to that character. Everyone's already doing what I do. I'm just being blatant about it. So why, then, is it "cheating" to have the game confirm what I already know? How is it "cheating" to use the in-game interface as a handy, dandy reference of who can breathe what and when, as opposed to what I used to do, which was to have the monster spoiler files sitting open in the next window?

Thus I petition that "Know all monster info" at least be moved out of the list of cheat options. The other flags in that list are legitimate cheats, in my opinion: knowing about what was randomized *in that game*. Information not available to the character *or* to the player in any fashion. Information that the character needs to discover during his journey. Information that's actually part of the game challenge, part of the fun. Reading on your tombstone "Oh, by the way, didn't you know that Greater Basilisks can breathe nexus?" Not fun.
Xaxyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 05:06   #2
zaimoni
Knight
 
zaimoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 590
zaimoni is on a distinguished road
The next release of Zaiband will convert the know-all-monsters option from cheat-default-off to ironman-default-on.
__________________
Zaiband: end the "I shouldn't have survived that" experience. V3.0.6 fork on Hg.
Zaiband 3.0.10 ETA Mar. 7 2011 (Yes, schedule slipped. Latest testing indicates not enough assert() calls to allow release.)
Z.C++: pre-alpha C/C++ compiler system (usable preprocessor). Also on Hg. Z.C++ 0.0.10 ETA December 31 2011
zaimoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 05:08   #3
buzzkill
Prophet
 
buzzkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 2,939
Donated: $8
buzzkill is on a distinguished road
I've won, and I never used any cheat options or spoilers. It is possible.
  • There is the knowledge of your ancestors.
  • There are rods of probing that can fill in holes in your monster memory.
  • There is extreme caution.
  • and of course there is always trial and error.

Knowing exactly every ability of every monster is (IMO) cheating (to a lesser extent). If you want to play that way and feel better about it, then turn on 'monsters exploit players weaknesses' too, as well as the other AI stuff.
__________________
www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.
buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 05:15   #4
will_asher
DaJAngband Maintainer
 
will_asher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 927
Donated: $10
will_asher is on a distinguished road
It isn't cheating.

In DaJAngband, the know-all-monster-info option is still geographically on the cheat menu, but it isn't called a cheat option and doesn't prevent scoring like the cheat options do.

(Well I guess the name of the option is technically still "cheat_know" but it doesn't say "cheat:" by the description at least.)

EDIT: There, I just changed the name of the option. It's now "know_races" instead of "cheat_know". It's only in the cheat menu because there's no room left on the birth options menu. (One of these days, I'm going to need to add an option menu)
__________________
Will_Asher

Play DaJAngband:
http://sites.google.com/site/dajangbandwebsite/home

Last edited by will_asher; February 11, 2011 at 07:16.
will_asher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 05:17   #5
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,023
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Honestly, I'm not too bothered by people who choose to use the cheats, but I also do feel like discovering what monsters are capable of is part of the fun of the game for newcomers to an extent. The fact that monsters can kill you from nothing is a problem, but once you get the basic 4 + poison covered, caution + probing should be sufficient to discover other major dangers. But if you don't feel like discovering monster abilities is fun, then by all means, turn the cheat on.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 07:11   #6
PowerDiver
Prophet
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,712
PowerDiver is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaxyx View Post
Just one problem, though. I'm a cheater.
I suppose all of the people who click on the Civ-pedia to see the stats of a unit when playing Civ are cheaters too. And the people who read the manuals that come with games, if they have games old enough to have come with a real manual.

The option should be inverted and renamed to "disable parts of the in-game manual".
PowerDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 07:38   #7
LostTemplar
Knight
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 670
LostTemplar is on a distinguished road
Anyone can get competition savefile and start a new char in it anyway, so yes, this option should not be cheating, just normal option.
LostTemplar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 07:40   #8
kingvictory2003
Scout
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 37
kingvictory2003 is on a distinguished road
I don't know the current state of the probing mechanic in vanilla, but if it is still consistent with older versions (pre 3.0) then it only gives you a few tidbits of information. Those few tidbits may give you enough info to save you, but most likely, will not. Hence, IMHO, pretty useless.

Probing in Hengband OTOH gives complete monster knowledge, which is indeed very powerful (and I guess by certain players' standards, cheating); Hengband however has waaay more exotic enemies than vanilla, and it is virtual suicide to engage many of them without any knowledge whatsoever.

Maybe vanilla wouldn't need full knowledge from probing as Hengband does (although I wouldn't see the problem personally), but it would probably benefit from giving more information than a great ice wyrm has resist cold. Orly. How about splitting the knowledge over 2 or 3 probes, if 1 is too powerful?

Just my 2¢
kingvictory2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 07:48   #9
Philip
Knight
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague,Czech Republic
Posts: 909
Philip is on a distinguished road
Oh, so that's why no-one probes anymore. Give probing some use. It's not too much a cheat, but maybe you should give monsters cheat_know as well by making them exploit weaknesses as suggested earlier.
Philip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 11, 2011, 08:56   #10
Timo Pietilä
Prophet
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Climbing up from hole I just dug.
Posts: 4,096
Timo Pietilä is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingvictory2003 View Post
I don't know the current state of the probing mechanic in vanilla, but if it is still consistent with older versions (pre 3.0) then it only gives you a few tidbits of information. Those few tidbits may give you enough info to save you, but most likely, will not. Hence, IMHO, pretty useless.
IIRC probing now reveals pretty much everything if not everything of the monster. At least in 3.1.2 it did reveal everything, not sure if it changed again in 3.2.
Timo Pietilä is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
nightlies bug? Character marked as cheater fph Development 2 December 28, 2010 15:55


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.