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Old February 4, 2019, 22:24   #41
Narry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphara View Post
I'm not a huge fan of water tiles in roguelikes in general, although it's hard to criticize here beforehand. Before I know how it is going to be done, that is. For my part, adding water will be tolerated but probably not appreciated. If its gonna be always-avoid-type of terrain like it is in ADOM, Nethack, Brogue and DCSS, I'm just going to walk, teleport or phase out of there and ignore it, if it's humanly possible.

If it gets done, please do not add item destruction/corrosion with it for more 'realism'!
I'm with Sphara concerning this issue.
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Old February 5, 2019, 05:30   #42
tangar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphara View Post
If it gets done, please do not add item destruction/corrosion with it for more 'realism'!
Whats the problem with that? If there would be quite rare event when one of your scrolls would be destroyed? It's totally alright experience, I've played with it in TomeNET and it's ok.

The only important thing - not to make it too harsh.

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Old February 5, 2019, 06:09   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangar View Post
Whats the problem with that? If there would be quite rare event when one of your scrolls would be destroyed? It's totally alright experience, I've played with it in TomeNET and it's ok.

The only important thing - not to make it too harsh.

In RNG we trust (tm)
If Nick and majority of the players want it to be implemented, I don't wanna stay on their way. But personally I do not care about the idea. Like I said, I haven't seen a roguelike where water squares provide nothing more than (minor or major) annoyance.

Regarding to item destruction, just few subjective arguments:
1) The game has enough item destruction as it is.

2) Scrolls of teleport level, (mass) banishment, destruction, rune of protection, for example, are far too valuable for me to risk losing them by voluntarily stepping on a dangerous terrain tile. Like I said earlier, I do not care for an addition that I'm most likely to ignore.

3) I do not want more situations like Lich/Balrog fights, where I stash drainable wands and staves somewhere before the hassle.

4) It would require lots of unnecessary coding, like adding |FLIGHT| flags on monsters. I don't know if this is an issue for Nick, though.

5) If it gets added, <-5> Speed doesn't sound THAT rough but it alone would still make it always-avoid-type terrain. Why would I move on a terrain that both slows me and randomly destroys my scrolls unless I'm absolutely forced to? Only reason would be that something like NetHack Medusa level or one those horrible ADOM rivers, stand between me and the downstairs.

Last edited by Sphara; February 5, 2019 at 06:15.
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Old February 6, 2019, 07:00   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphara View Post
If Nick and majority of the players want it to be implemented, I don't wanna stay on their way. But personally I do not care about the idea. Like I said, I haven't seen a roguelike where water squares provide nothing more than (minor or major) annoyance.

Regarding to item destruction, just few subjective arguments:
1) The game has enough item destruction as it is.

2) Scrolls of teleport level, (mass) banishment, destruction, rune of protection, for example, are far too valuable for me to risk losing them by voluntarily stepping on a dangerous terrain tile. Like I said earlier, I do not care for an addition that I'm most likely to ignore.

3) I do not want more situations like Lich/Balrog fights, where I stash drainable wands and staves somewhere before the hassle.

4) It would require lots of unnecessary coding, like adding |FLIGHT| flags on monsters. I don't know if this is an issue for Nick, though.

5) If it gets added, <-5> Speed doesn't sound THAT rough but it alone would still make it always-avoid-type terrain. Why would I move on a terrain that both slows me and randomly destroys my scrolls unless I'm absolutely forced to? Only reason would be that something like NetHack Medusa level or one those horrible ADOM rivers, stand between me and the downstairs.
Word.

ADOM has a way of getting around with it by either casting (or aiming a wand or zapping a rod of) frost bolt or building a bridge over the water. Of course, for the latter option you need the skill and some logs. And you get logs by chopping down trees with a hatchet. Let's not go down that river (pun intended).
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Old February 6, 2019, 10:40   #45
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I'm speaking on behalf of my TomeNET experience. There is such risks:

Quote:
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- aquatic monsters which can spawn only at 'water' tiles; they can pursue player even in 'shallow' water, but can't leave it to surface
- swimming in deep water give a chance for scrolls & other items to be destroyed; water resistance items or tarpaulin (tool slot) protect from it.
- eventually you could die (drown) if you are tired and bad at swimming // but it's VERY-VERY tiny chance. In most cases if you are unlucky you would reduce stat (STR/DEX/CON)
- 'swimming' skill & racial parameter; It would be fun to have it in Angband (like 'Digging') eg makes hobbit swim not really good ^^
- you can not create walls on deep water; not all stuff could be summoned on deep water
- there is fresh and salt water. You could fill bottle; eg with salt water and use this potions to throw to the enemies or 'clean' your stomach
...and it don't feel harsh at all (even with the possibility to have quite wide squares under water). In general you try to avoid water terrains, but you do not fear too much to swim from one shore to another. So when you are 'forced' to cross water - you do it. This isn't harsh 'forcing', it's like a choice from easy path to a bit more risky. It doesn't feel hardcore at all.

'Water' should be risky terrain. Not 'dangerous' like lava, but 'risky'.
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