Angband.oook.cz
Angband.oook.cz
AboutVariantsLadderForumCompetitionComicScreenshotsFunniesLinks

Go Back   Angband Forums > Angband > Vanilla

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 8, 2019, 06:31   #1
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,368
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Persons and humanoids

In the process of revamping the monster list, I keep putting off dealing with persons ('p') and humanoids ('h'), and this is mainly because I can't come up with any strategy for them that seems consistent. So here are a few facts/opinions that I've assembled:
  • The uniques are all from Tolkien's writings, except for Harowen and Fundin Bluecloak; in my opinion they need very little if any work
  • Many of the non-unique humans are based on the (6 original) player classes, in three grades: soldier, cutpurse, acolyte, apprentice, scout, gallant; Easterling warrior, bandit/brigand, priest, illusionist, ranger, paladin; Easterling champion, master rogue/master thief, mage/sorcerer, patriarch, ranger chieftain, knight Templar
  • The remainder are healer (fairly new), ninja/dagashi, mystic/master mystic/grand master mystic, black knight/death knight, enchantress/necromancer/demonologist, berserker
  • Non-unique humanoids are pretty much (D&D) dark elf versions of some of the humans, with the addition of scruffy-looking hobbits, gnome mages and mind flayers

Notably missing from the humanoids are (Tolkien) elves, dwarves and hobbits. Likewise the humans are (apart from the Easterling branding on what used to be swordsmen and hardened warriors) generic fantasy. Some examples of possible Tolkienian inclusions are corsairs, variags, Dunlendings, southrons, black Numenoreans, dwarves of Nogrod, Feanorian elves, ruffians, shirriffs, wainriders, balchoth, men of Angmar, men of Carn Dum, petty-dwarves...

So, what would people like to see? Still player class-based creatures? Tolkienisation? Which of the above are people particularly attached to (I'm thinking the mystic family is kind of iconic Angband)? Are there any additions you would like to see from variants or elsewhere?

Voice your opinions, please.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 09:29   #2
jevansau
Adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 60
Posts: 160
jevansau is on a distinguished road
I don't mind the D&D style low level humans, but Tolkeinisation of the high level ones and humanoids might be good.

I like the uniques and "the remainder".
jevansau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 09:35   #3
PowerWyrm
Prophet
 
PowerWyrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,518
PowerWyrm is on a distinguished road
Fundin Bluecloak is the father of Balin, uncle of Gimli.
__________________
PWMAngband variant maintainer - check http://powerwyrm.monsite-orange.fr (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!
PowerWyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 11:46   #4
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,368
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerWyrm View Post
Fundin Bluecloak is the father of Balin, uncle of Gimli.
Balin's father Fundin died at the Battle of Azanulbizar - there is no record of whether he was a priest or what colour his cloak was
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 15:53   #5
Clearshade
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7
Clearshade is on a distinguished road
Fundin Bluecloak was the name of the first @ to beat Morgoth back at Warwick Uni.
Clearshade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 16:32   #6
Derakon
Prophet
 
Derakon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 8,619
Derakon is on a distinguished road
Yeah, Fundin should stick around more or less as-is for "game mythology" reasons, not so much setting mythology.

As for the existing classes, some thoughts:
* Necromancer, Demonologist, and Enchantress are relatively rare concepts in that they summon fairly powerful monsters that are not of the same type as they are -- otherwise summoning tends to be "a monster calling for friends that look like it". If you're going to keep one though, the Enchantress is the most memorable because she's fast.
* Most Dark Elf monsters are fast, which makes a big difference in them standing out.
* Berserkers have a place in northern European mythology, which I feel is at least Tolkein-adjacent. They're also kind of a rarity in that by the time you get to their depth most monsters have some kind of non-melee attack, while they're just powerful, hard-to-kill bruisers.

I don't really mind the "reskinned player classes" thing; it does at least make it pretty easy to tell what you're up against. I'd have some mild concern that if you renamed them to be things from Tolkein, then you'd lose some "legibility", so to speak, in that players wouldn't have that easy read of what the monster is capable of. But that might be an unfounded concern.
Derakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 17:28   #7
wobbly
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,790
wobbly is on a distinguished road
I'm fine with the generics. Ninja/dagashi are a bit off-putting. Dark elves I'd prefer named something else, I'm just not volunteering to redraw all the tiles.
wobbly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 20:01   #8
Ingwe Ingweron
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 1,683
Ingwe Ingweron is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
Some examples of possible Tolkienian inclusions are corsairs, variags, Dunlendings, southrons, black Numenoreans, dwarves of Nogrod, Feanorian elves, ruffians, shirriffs, wainriders, balchoth, men of Angmar, men of Carn Dum, petty-dwarves...
Yes!!! All of these as additions, or renaming existing non-uniques.
__________________
“We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Ingwe Ingweron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 23:00   #9
Nick
Vanilla maintainer
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canberra, Australia
Age: 53
Posts: 7,368
Donated: $60
Nick is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clearshade View Post
Fundin Bluecloak was the name of the first @ to beat Morgoth back at Warwick Uni.
Nice, that's excellent to know

As for the rest, there's nothing anyone's said that really conflicts with any of my thinking, although partly that's because my thinking is still a bit indefinite. I think I'll put them off a bit longer and see if anything else emerges from my thoughts or anyone else's.
__________________
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8, 2019, 23:28   #10
Voovus
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: London
Posts: 68
Voovus is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clearshade View Post
Fundin Bluecloak was the name of the first @ to beat Morgoth back at Warwick Uni.
Maybe this could show up in the monster description?


Regarding Nick's original post, I'm less interested in the Tolkienisation of (Vanilla) Angband as in the preservation of Moria. Here's the list of Moria persons/humanoids (courtesy of Mor. Preserv. Soc.). I'd be sorry to see more of them go.

Bandit,
Battle-Scarred Veteran,
Berzerker,
Black Knight,
Blubbering Idiot,
Brigand,
Evil Iggy,
Filthy Street Urchin,
Greedy Little Gnome,
Mage,
Magic User,
Mangy-Looking Leper,
Mean-Looking Mercenary,
Nasty Little Gnome,
Necromancer,
Ninja,
Novice Mage,
Novice Priest,
Novice Rogue,
Novice Warrior,
Pitiful-Looking Beggar,
Priest,
Scruffy-Looking Hobbit,
Seedy Looking Human,
Singing, Happy Drunk,
Sorcerer,
Squint-Eyed Rogue,
Swordsman,
Warrior.

I'm sorry that Greedy Little Gnome and Nasty Little Gnome have disappeared - they had character. Also, why did dear ol' Evil Iggy disappear? He was as irritating at 2500' as Smeagol is at 150', and doesn't have an Angband analogue.

I do like the Angband "adventurer parties" consisting of characters of different classes (cutpurse, soldier, acolyte etc), though I think they'd be more fun if they were rarer and tougher.
Voovus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.