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Old May 12, 2021, 00:30   #31
Nick
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Originally Posted by archolewa View Post
This I would totally be down with. That or just giving them a better blows table. They are a hybrid class, I feel like they should be better at melee. I think you could give them the same blows table as the paladin without losing anything. A paladins healing still means they are better in melee than a Ranger. But this way Rangers actually have some means of offense wothout having to recall to buy more arrows every other floor. Or give them a table that is generous early, but much more stingy later. So by the midgame they are lagging hard behind warriors in melee, but in the early game they arent a priest without any healing spells.
Their melee is better than it used to be, and they also have good stealth. So they're meant to be more like a rogue than anything else, really.
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Old May 12, 2021, 01:46   #32
Julian
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Originally Posted by archolewa View Post
This I would totally be down with. That or just giving them a better blows table. They are a hybrid class, I feel like they should be better at melee. I think you could give them the same blows table as the paladin without losing anything. A paladins healing still means they are better in melee than a Ranger. But this way Rangers actually have some means of offense wothout having to recall to buy more arrows every other floor. Or give them a table that is generous early, but much more stingy later. So by the midgame they are lagging hard behind warriors in melee, but in the early game they arent a priest without any healing spells.
The blows calculation doesn’t work like that. Except by capping the maximum number of blows, you can’t make a class get extra blows early and not still be good later.
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Old May 12, 2021, 01:50   #33
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Their melee is better than it used to be, and they also have good stealth. So they're meant to be more like a rogue than anything else, really.
I just experimented a bit, and it looks like they can hit 2 blows per round to start (at least a Dunadan), however you have to tweak the default point buy a bit. I was under the mistaken impression that you couldnt hit 2 blows. Ill have to try again some time, and see if starting with 2 blows changes my opinion any.
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Old May 12, 2021, 11:57   #34
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I still havent won with a mage.

Regardless, congratulations! That first win is something special.
this is what you do to win with mage.

Get a mage to DL35/40.
Pump him full of stat potions.
2x rings of Escaping
stash all the !Enlight and ?DD you find.

when you get to CL35 circa (10% TO fail or lower) read all the scrolls of DD you have and get to DL96+, find stairs and keep scumming until you get a LF 8.

use !Enlightment and look for a Kelek's. Teleport away everything that stands between you and Keleks.

Learn banish. Banish everything and pick up gear.
Drink potions of !Exp

Once you are CL50 find morgoth and mana storm him into nothingness.
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Old May 12, 2021, 16:20   #35
SonicSpeedBryce
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Originally Posted by Sky View Post
this is what you do to win with mage.

Get a mage to DL35/40.
Pump him full of stat potions.
2x rings of Escaping
stash all the !Enlight and ?DD you find.

when you get to CL35 circa (10% TO fail or lower) read all the scrolls of DD you have and get to DL96+, find stairs and keep scumming until you get a LF 8.

use !Enlightment and look for a Kelek's. Teleport away everything that stands between you and Keleks.

Learn banish. Banish everything and pick up gear.
Drink potions of !Exp

Once you are CL50 find morgoth and mana storm him into nothingness.
That sounds like a cool speedrunning/powerdiving strategy! My playthrough was much less interesting, though. I made decent progress through the dungeon until I hit points that I felt I needed better gear/certain resists in order to survive, say, a surprise capped poison breath. Reveal Monsters/Detection and Teleport Other helped to mitigate such risks, but I still didn't want to take any chances.

When I got Wizard's Tome of Power, I just started spamming Banishment and Mass Banishment to get rid of the non-uniques that I didn't want to deal with, and only engaged Uniques that I felt I could take on. At DL97 and DL98, I just started grinding those, getting experience and extra consumables along the way, hoping to find an artifact that had all resists on it (namely Bladeturner) so that I could resist anything that Morgoth could throw at me.

I never found Bladeturner, but I did find The One Ring, which was close enough for my purposes. After tens of thousands of turns later of searching and a near death experience with some dragon that nearly one shot me, I finally decided to just face Sauron and Morgoth. In retrospect, they were surprisingly easy. The gear I used covered resists nicely while supplying the status protections I cared about. The summons were no issue because of the whole Banishment/Mass Banishment thing, as well as the fact that I offed all the other uniques beforehand.

I think, in the future, I'll play another High-Elf Mage and see how well the powerdiving strategy works.
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Old May 12, 2021, 17:23   #36
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Hanging at DL 40 Atil CL 35 isn't exactly powerdiving. Without (e.g.) midgame U to pick off, it'll take a looong time.
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Old May 12, 2021, 17:24   #37
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this is what you do to win with a mage.
I have gotten to the endgame with a mage, before getting offed by Wiruin, but honestly I just dont enjoy the class much. I find scumming to be boring, and that seems to be what mages are good at, and I dont like being within one-shot range of everything all the time. Mass Banishing a vault is fun the first time, but gets old the seventh.

Generally, when a mage detects, they look for monsters they can kill, and avoid everything else. I prefer to play classes where you use detect to find monsters to avoid, and can kill everything else (whether you do or not is up to you).
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Old May 12, 2021, 17:45   #38
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Mostly, Im annoyed that the class that seems like it should be the *least* dependent on the town is in fact the *most* dependent.
This is an interesting point
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Old May 12, 2021, 17:57   #39
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Maybe it'd be good if Rangers had two make arrows spells. The high level one they have now, and a low level one which only makes average arrows.
This is an interesting suggestion. Giving it about 3 minutes of thought, here's a half-baked idea:

Create an object called "arrow heads." When arrows break they (usually?) leave behind arrow heads. Also, you can find them like normal low-level items. For most characters they are useless except to be sold cheaply in town, if selling is on, and can be immediately ignored. Rangers would have a very low-level spell called Fletchery which turns arrow heads into arrows. Could sell arrow heads in the general store as well, maybe.

Gets a bit more complex when you start thinking about Mithril arrows and magic arrows...
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Old May 12, 2021, 18:28   #40
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Arrows shatter against plate mail or a steel cuirass, and the heads are usually ruined as well. (See vid I posted recently.) Presumably they shatter against dragon scales and the like, too. It's worth noting that all useful arrows in warfare were bodkin. While broadhead do more damage, they won't penetrate any metal armor and were used mostly for hunting, as are their modern versions today.

Speaking of hunting, there's one greatly feared animal from Medieval Europe that really needs to be in angband: the wild boar. They have a high AC, are fast, and come in packs.
The boar savages you <2x>
The boar tramples you <2x>
The sow bites you <2x>
The sow tramples you <2x>
You die
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