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Old January 6, 2019, 19:20   #11
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
Smithing isn't strong though. Dedicated smithing builds are painful to get through the early and middle game, and the return of investment for all that XP doesn't kick in until well after other melee builds beats the tar out of everything that isn't Morgoth.
I think there's a distinction to be made here between smithing and dedicated smithing. A few hundred XP to get better equipment can enhance survivability for a while, and Enchantment for lore and as a means of shoring up missing resistances is fairly reasonable. If you commit to making smithing kits with early forges, spending on Artifice early, etc, it is significantly harder early on.

16 of the 24 Sil-Q wins used some form of Smithing. How they used Smithing varied; some used Artifice, some used Enchantment, a couple just stopped at the first skill. I would say that that does not look to me like evidence that Smithing is not strong.

Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
Also, apart from getting enough damage output to actually polish off V most smithables doesn't get appreciatively better than findable items until mid-high 30's (and beyond) in the smithing skill.
Depends where you're finding them and what the items are.

I think the fine items you can craft at 100' with relatively minimal investment are not so easily replaced for a few hundred more feet. Eventually you can replace them, yes, but you can gain substantial survivability until then.

Mid-game I think having your pick of enchantable items such as gloves of strength or mail corslets of resilience or shields of frost makes it much easier to fill holes in your strategy. We're only up to about 14 or 15 smithing by this point.

Artefact-wise, you don't need to hit the mid-30s. A robe of speed is 28, and the only robe of speed in game is vanishingly rare. A mithril shield that covers fire, cold and poison resistances is just 19, and decently better than Hador. Boots that grant dodging, sprinting and exchange places? 22.

Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
I've mentioned this before, but I still think Smithing is inherently unbalanceable and, frankly, not that interesting (much of what makes roguelikes interesting imo is in figuring out how to utilize with the euipment you find). This goes for any game with any sort of "crafting" system. If smithing is the big reason you're finding Morgoth hard to balance I'd swap out the entire tree for something different instead.
You've said this before, but I'm currently unaware of any other players who share your viewpoint, so I'm probably going to keep on trying to balance Smithing as it is.

Originally Posted by Infinitum View Post
Someone once posted the idea of the player only being able to temporarily knock him out at best (what with him being a god and all), meaning he'd return for the chase sequence no matter what.
This is plausible. Anyone else have thoughts on thta?

Last edited by Quirk; January 6, 2019 at 19:27.
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