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Old May 18, 2020, 18:55   #21
EpicMan
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I'm no expert diver, but I believe those "You must have X before level Y" rules have all been discarded in favor of "know thy enemy" -i.e. if you don't have resist X, watch out for monsters that breathe that element.
Stealth really helps with diving, as does detection.

The other factor is that new monsters spawn on the level as time goes on, so it becomes more and more dangerous to stay. Part of the diving method is to be ready to abandon a level as soon as it becomes too dangerous to stay.

There are an infinite number of dungeon levels you can visit, so there is basically no downside to abandoning a level, you will eventually find whatever you missed on a future level.
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Old May 19, 2020, 04:06   #22
mrfy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicMan View Post
I'm no expert diver, but I believe those "You must have X before level Y" rules have all been discarded in favor of "know thy enemy" -i.e. if you don't have resist X, watch out for monsters that breathe that element.
Stealth really helps with diving, as does detection.
There are other ways to play than the dive, dive, dive method. I tend to fully explore levels and try to kill everything. I don't dive beyond my abilities but I recognize when I'm in trouble and TO or escape. My games take a long time but I have a fair number of wins (where a win is killing all uniques not just Morgoth).

Quote:
The other factor is that new monsters spawn on the level as time goes on, so it becomes more and more dangerous to stay. Part of the diving method is to be ready to abandon a level as soon as it becomes too dangerous to stay.
There's risk everywhere, turning the corner carries risk. IMO, fully exploring levels is not bad, as the monsters who appear are usually easily dealt with. But learning when you are in danger and need to retreat or leave is key.
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Old May 19, 2020, 15:34   #23
Sky
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my latest runs have a win% of .. uh, rough guess, 30%. Including early fails.
I don't dive, or rather, i dive in steps.

1. grind the early levels for launcher, basic IDs, magic weapon, FA, and stock on gear.

2. dive to money depth - where you start finding staves and wands - so you have enough to buy something OOD from BM

3. dive to DL25/35 depending on character once you have basic resist, SI, FA, detection, a stack of !Spd, a stack each of CSW and CCW, x3 magic launcher, sSTR and enough STR to dig granite, branded weapon; and kill early uniques (orc captains) for first artifact drops

4. dive to DL45 and stay there until you are reasonably buffed with stat potions and have plenty of TO.

5. after TO and stat buff, you can dive to DL98 and grind vaults.
I really like to have HL by then but can do without if i have great TO and many RLL.


slower descents are still better because - if you kill uniques as they show up - you can fairly safely TS around the map, while if you dive really quick you get to DL70+ and the map is stuffed full of 1-shot uniques such as Arien and Osse. Also, along the way they will drop useful artifacts and consumables; but, it's not as boring to play, which is in fact a factor on how often you die.
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Old May 29, 2020, 16:01   #24
moosferatu
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I have a new character going now that I think is off to a good start: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=23594

I finally had a ranger that was lucky enough to find a decent bow early, and it's made a huge difference in play. My stealth is still awesome, but it doesn't matter nearly as much since this character can bring the damage.

However, unlike my other characters, this one is sorely lacking in resistances. I particularly feel nervous about not even having see invisible. I was considering temporarily swapping out Totila for Elvagil until I was able to find another source for see invisible. My character is lacking in strength, so carrying both isn't really a great option at this point. Any opinions on +6 speed vs +3 speed & see invisible?
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Old May 29, 2020, 20:44   #25
Sky
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Originally Posted by moosferatu View Post
Any opinions on +6 speed vs +3 speed & see invisible?
+3 Spd and SI.

At DL30 you will run with some frequency into stat-draining invisible monsters and if you get your STR drained you can just die right there and then (due to the Spd reduction that comes from carrying weight); getting your DEX drained is no fun either, more so because it comes from a crummy little monster that given no xp.
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