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Old May 22, 2020, 00:20   #11
archolewa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
OK, sorry, I was completely missing that the big healing potions satiated more (don't ask me how). They can come down to 1. In fact, would anyone care if Healing and *Healing* didn't nourish at all?
I dont care.
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Old May 22, 2020, 02:38   #12
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
OK, sorry, I was completely missing that the big healing potions satiated more (don't ask me how). They can come down to 1. In fact, would anyone care if Healing and *Healing* didn't nourish at all?
If healing potions don't nourish, what is the point of having a hunger meter at all? Force players to pay some insignificant money over time for food? There are better ways to make players pay "rent." Add a challenge to Iron Man mode? This is actually reasonable (I think; I have rarely tried that mode) but we could just disable hunger for non-Iron Man games then.

Scrolls can't be read while blind, devices have a fail rate, and you can get full if you drink too much potion. I say set all potions (not just healing) to 1% or 0.5% nourishment.
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Old May 22, 2020, 05:22   #13
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Originally Posted by DavidMedley View Post
If healing potions don't nourish, what is the point of having a hunger meter at all? Force players to pay some insignificant money over time for food? There are better ways to make players pay "rent." Add a challenge to Iron Man mode? This is actually reasonable (I think; I have rarely tried that mode) but we could just disable hunger for non-Iron Man games then.

Scrolls can't be read while blind, devices have a fail rate, and you can get full if you drink too much potion. I say set all potions (not just healing) to 1% or 0.5% nourishment.
OK, I have a couple of reasons:
  • The Cure x Wounds potions still give 1% nourishment, and at least !CCW is (or was) sometimes used in the final fight to save bigger heals - when in real trouble, teleport M away, destruct and then sit quaffing !CCW until he returns. This puts a limit on that strategy. *Healing* (and arguably Healing), though, is necessary, and making the player jump through too many hoops to prepare seems silly.
  • Nourishment from potions can also be a positive (I have a story which I've probably told too often already about being hungry, a GCV containing Narya, and a stack of !Healing). For players short of food and not wanting to leave a level, I think the idea of having some potions which nourish (and there are a few others!) and some which don't has some potential for fun.
That said, I think there are three viable options here:
  1. !*Healing* and !Healing both nourish 1%;
  2. !*Healing* has no food value, !Healing does 1%;
  3. Both !*Healing* and !Healing have no food value.
In terms of making interesting decisions, I actually kind of like option 2, but I'd like to hear feedback from people who fight Morgoth more often than me .
Note too - !Life doesn't nourish.
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Old May 22, 2020, 05:24   #14
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Originally Posted by DavidMedley View Post
If healing potions don't nourish, what is the point of having a hunger meter at all? Force players to pay some insignificant money over time for food? There are better ways to make players pay "rent." Add a challenge to Iron Man mode? This is actually reasonable (I think; I have rarely tried that mode) but we could just disable hunger for non-Iron Man games then.
It's possible to fix it even in normal, non-IM mode.. In my variant there is not possible to buy food from shops (only rarely at Black Market at _very_ high price); only find it in dungeon (it's well explained in terms of lore as dark curse to farmers which lowered their yield + monsters steal food -> bag of wheat cost more, than bag of gold). This makes gameplay totally different (and more interesting imho). Food is make sense then But at endgame when you character quite powerful already and do not need to care much about mandane things - having satiation from healing potions is good thing. So it feels pretty balanced. But in some rare cases I've had problems with food even with satiation from potions as potions are also limited resource; so from time to time you could meet problem with the food at endgame and it brought very cool spirit to the gameplay - when you need to rush in clearing dungeon levels in attempt to find food there (or get the gold to buy it). Sometimes to survive from hunger you even have to drink heal potions. Really cool feeling - to find something ASAP to survive, adding zeitnot-style risk. One of my favorite moments in the game overall. Actually having problem with the food at endgame have some sense in terms of lore.. As Frodo, for example, had problems with it in the end...
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Old May 22, 2020, 06:11   #15
spara
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Isn't there already a mechanism for bringing the hunger meter down? I mean Satisfy Hunger.
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Old May 22, 2020, 06:49   #16
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Isn't there already a mechanism for bringing the hunger meter down? I mean Satisfy Hunger.
That only increases hunger meter to 50% - if it's above 50 it stays unchanged (and it's now called Remove Hunger ).
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Old May 22, 2020, 06:56   #17
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That only increases hunger meter to 50% - if it's above 50 it stays unchanged (and it's now called Remove Hunger ).
Ah, ok then. I vaguely remember some discussion on it. Change the name to "Normalize Satiation", set the hunger meter always to 50% and you're done .
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Old May 22, 2020, 08:22   #18
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Originally Posted by Thraalbee View Post
Slow digestion could be changed to improved digestion and double burn food when over a certain limit. That would be helpful instead of near curse
This is the suggestion that I like the most among the ones I have seen here. In addition, one could make Slow Digestion a bit more rare in artifacts, so that having it or not becomes a meaningful choice.
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Old May 22, 2020, 14:20   #19
DavidMedley
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Originally Posted by Nick View Post
For players short of food and not wanting to leave a level, I think the idea of having some potions which nourish (and there are a few others!) and some which don't has some potential for fun.
Sure, and thematically maybe !Life is much smaller than !CLW (though they weigh the same) or is made of non-nourishing fairy dust or whatever. But I think identical nourishment across the board is more "realistic" as well as more thematic and more importantly I just don't think it's worth the player attention's attention to have to Inspect potions for their Nutritional Facts Label, potion of Slime Juice aside.
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Old May 22, 2020, 15:55   #20
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Angband 3.5.0 released!
  • Radically improve Slow Digestion (you nearly never need to eat with it).
Can we start with reverting this one?

Oh, almost missed it,

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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
  • Remove Gorged status if you eat too much food.
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