[3.4] Iron Helm of Rantaur [7, +20]...

[PowerWyrm]

... without any other ability.

I think that at least one guaranteed ability (even some crappy feather falling or such) should be granted to weapons/armor parts regardless of improved tohit/todam/toac. Otherwise such items don't really feel like randarts...

[Mikko Lehtinen]

I like randarts without abilities. I find they somehow bring flavour and realism to the game.

[Philip]

Well, it has a AC higher than most other helms, cannot be damaged/destroyed and has a save against disenchantment. Nevertheless, this helm is a worse helm than any ego item and is worthless unless found at dlvl 5. I wonder what it was based on? A cursed artifact, perhaps? Gorlim, or something? If that is the case, I suggest cursed artifacts inherit bonuses and penalties seperately from each other and not have them added.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

How important is AC in vanilla? I know I'd be happy to wear that helm in Halls of Mist.

[Philip]

Utterly irrelevant, actually. Only in a long fight does AC gain any sort of marginal utility. It doesn't really reduce damage, just makes monsters more likely to miss you, and not by much. AC is a tie-breaker at best when comparing equipment.

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by Philip

Utterly irrelevant, actually.

...after you have gain the first 50 or so AC. It reduces melee damage as well as reduces chances monsters hit you, so you do want some AC. Especially early you will notice quite big difference when fighting orcs with and without good armor.

Later 50+ AC is tiny. Like really tiny. So tiny that it is hard to gain with other things you want from armors (resistances & protections & abilities). O would gladly swap [7, +20] helmet to Lordliness Crown [0, +10] <+1> without thinking twice in Angband.

I think AC damage reduction caps somewhere in 200AC, can't just now remember how big portion of damage it reduces.

[AnonymousHero]

I think I had a similar find in a recent game. However, my instance of this had something ridiculous like +80 AC (but very low base AC)... and perhaps a light radius of 1.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Originally Posted by Timo Pietilä

...after you have gain the first 50 or so AC. It reduces melee damage as well as reduces chances monsters hit you, so you do want some AC. Especially early you will notice quite big difference when fighting orcs with and without good armor.

Later 50+ AC is tiny. Like really tiny. So tiny that it is hard to gain with other things you want from armors (resistances & protections & abilities). O would gladly swap [7, +20] helmet to Lordliness Crown [0, +10] <+1> without thinking twice in Angband.

I think AC damage reduction caps somewhere in 200AC, can't just now remember how big portion of damage it reduces.

So I'm kind of curious, but why have a AC damage cap at all? Let's suppose you had a very high armour class already close to 200, which is pretty high, and then you eat a mushroom of stoneskin, that adds a lot more to your armour class yet slows you down....kind of misleading don't you think? you actualy hurt yourself more by trying to up your armour class at the cost of slowing yourself down, new players certainly wouldn't understand this or that there is a damage cap at all.

[Timo Pietilä]

Originally Posted by Malak Darkhunter

So I'm kind of curious, but why have a AC damage cap at all? Let's suppose you had a very high armour class already close to 200, which is pretty high, and then you eat a mushroom of stoneskin, that adds a lot more to your armour class yet slows you down....kind of misleading don't you think? you actualy hurt yourself more by trying to up your armour class at the cost of slowing yourself down, new players certainly wouldn't understand this or that there is a damage cap at all.

AC does also affect the chance monsters hit you, and I think that doesn't have any cap (except 5% time they hit you no matter how low or high you AC is, and also 5% of time they miss you no matter how low your AC is IIRC).

AC gain you get from stoneskin is not worth the speed penalty in current system. One point of speed is worth about million points of AC in my book unless you are practically naked without that bonus. That mushroom is junk in my book. AC is about as worthless as searching (again unless you are nearly naked without).

[Derakon]

Timo, I suggest you try playing a game where the armor is modded to only give half the AC it usually does, and see how that affects the game.

The effects of AC are pretty subtle, but they're also meaningful. Going with a low AC makes melee considerably more dangerous. The problem is that it's hard to consider the marginal benefit of increasing your AC by, say, 10%; it's like getting a single speed point. You know it's good, but it doesn't seem to affect your game in any obvious way.