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 December 10, 2018, 17:03 #41 Sideways Swordsman   Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318 The last ring winner is Aver's from PosChengband 7.0.2; and the only changes to rings since then should make them easier; so ring ought to be winnable. I'll look into the skillmaster thing, thanks. __________________ The Complainer worries about the lack of activity here these days.
 December 12, 2018, 23:31 #42 CyclopsSlayer Swordsman   Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 263 I've seen this issue before and have shrugged it off, but it does lead me to wonder about a problem with the core Math routines in Frog and many other *bands. The particular issue I saw today; A pair of soft leather boots was selling for 10 gold. A pair of soft leather boots, 25% off, was selling for 9 gold. I can think of no math that would allow this. IF the base boots were actually 10.7 then the reduced cost with round up would be 9 gold, BUT then the base boots should be 11. 1 gold is not the issue, it is that this seems to indicate a flaw in the base math routines.
 December 13, 2018, 00:10 #43 Sideways Swordsman   Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318 I think that has to do with the order in which certain things are calculated. In this case the boots probably have a "real" value of 6, which becomes 5 after the discount is applied and the resulting value is rounded up. Then that's multiplied by some factor in the store, and if that factor is something like 1.73, you get 6*1.73=10.38=10 and 5*1.73=8.65=9. Although it may seem odd to apply the discount so early (and that is the root cause of the weird prices you're seeing), from a coding point of view it's easier to do it that way. __________________ The Complainer worries about the lack of activity here these days.
December 13, 2018, 04:11   #44
CyclopsSlayer
Swordsman

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 263
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sideways I think that has to do with the order in which certain things are calculated. In this case the boots probably have a "real" value of 6, which becomes 5 after the discount is applied and the resulting value is rounded up. Then that's multiplied by some factor in the store, and if that factor is something like 1.73, you get 6*1.73=10.38=10 and 5*1.73=8.65=9. Although it may seem odd to apply the discount so early (and that is the root cause of the weird prices you're seeing), from a coding point of view it's easier to do it that way.
Ah, okay. Yes applying the discount early makes the process order dubious.

Is the same true of other things, Saves, Fails, To-Hit, Damage, etc...??

 December 13, 2018, 16:15 #45 Sideways Swordsman   Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 318 I'm not sure how the concept would even apply to something like saves or fails or to-hit. And discounts have that process order for a reason - it means all discounts can be calculated once in one place in the code, and don't need to be separately applied by every piece of code that wants a discounted price, and item values don't need any scaling. It makes the code a lot easier to maintain, and the errors in shop prices that result from it are very minor. Could I fix it with some hack - "apply the discount later in this special case", and then do the applying where necessary - sure, but it wouldn't be a good return on the coding investment. __________________ The Complainer worries about the lack of activity here these days.
 December 13, 2018, 18:27 #46 CyclopsSlayer Swordsman   Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 263 Sorry, it wasn't meant to be an accusation. I was just curious about the inner workings of complex calculations. I am only remotely familiar with coding, classes in BASIC and Pascal 40 years ago, so looking into the source is not really an option. I was just curious about the process order and whether or not it rendered the displayed numbers as meaningful.
 December 13, 2018, 18:46 #47 TauzentBlitz Rookie   Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 22 Skill Masters with 5 points in Burglary don't get friendly piranhas from traps either. Edit: Any monster you ride on will log every step you take as a non-spell-cast turn, more or less permanently ruining their spell % chance in recall. This even takes precedence over the probing spell. (After riding around a Hell Knight on a ring character for a while it has a listed 1.88% chance, 854 out of 45245 moves.) Edit Edit: Does weapon proficiency affect throwing to_hit? Last edited by TauzentBlitz; December 14, 2018 at 16:38.

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