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Old February 12, 2010, 22:41   #1
z118
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Selling bad weapons

Why will the shopkeep buy my (-2, -4) arrows but not my (-4, -4) trident?
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Old February 12, 2010, 23:02   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z118 View Post
Why will the shopkeep buy my (-2, -4) arrows but not my (-4, -4) trident?
Object power. The arrows are worth >0gp, the trident isn't. With a decent launcher the arrows will still do decent damage.
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Old February 13, 2010, 14:33   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Object power. The arrows are worth >0gp, the trident isn't. With a decent launcher the arrows will still do decent damage.
Thanks! I'm guessing if I were more aware of the numbers and calculations this would make more sense to me. It does seem odd though to see the shopkeep selling (0, 0) arrows for 1gp each next to (-2, -4) arrows for the same price.
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Old February 13, 2010, 16:17   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z118 View Post
Thanks! I'm guessing if I were more aware of the numbers and calculations this would make more sense to me. It does seem odd though to see the shopkeep selling (0, 0) arrows for 1gp each next to (-2, -4) arrows for the same price.
Yeah, that's a rounding problem. Not much can be done about it, as there will be a lynching if (+0,+0) arrows cost more than 1gp ...
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Old February 13, 2010, 18:09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
Yeah, that's a rounding problem. Not much can be done about it, as there will be a lynching if (+0,+0) arrows cost more than 1gp ...
Because any modest increase in the price of one of the most necessary items in the game is somehow un-thinkable. Personally, I think 5 is a nice round, low number.
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Old February 13, 2010, 18:57   #6
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Because any modest increase in the price of one of the most necessary items in the game is somehow un-thinkable. Personally, I think 5 is a nice round, low number.
You could go for utility pricing, or for production pricing. I think the proper utility pricing is above 1 avg arrow = expected money drop from an ancient dragon. Production pricing is 1. You make the call.

Or you go for arbitrary, but that's a bit difficult to discuss.
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Old February 13, 2010, 19:05   #7
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And I think missile weapons should be nerfed until they no longer do more damage than melee.
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Old February 13, 2010, 20:20   #8
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And I think missile weapons should be nerfed until they no longer do more damage than melee.
So long as (your ranged damage)/(your melee) > (its ranged damage)/(its melee) you will keep preferring missiles. Be sure to include lots of zeros for moving when calculating its ranged damage, and you should also try to account for side effects on its melee attacks.

It is not nearly enough to reduce your ranged damage to below your melee unless you tackle the other side of the inequality too.
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Old February 13, 2010, 20:28   #9
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Quote:
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And I think missile weapons should be nerfed until they no longer do more damage than melee.
Hmm... not sure if you have to be logged in to see this, but here goes...
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...4&id=505926144

If you can't see it, it's a picture of some guy in this ginormous tank that looks like something out of WH40K or Advance Wars, and he's shouting "Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"

:P

Yeah, I kinda have an issue with games, etc. that nerf missile weapons' damage to "balance" them with melee... the Megaman games come to mind, as does Star Wars... :P

If anything, just make missile weapons more expensive... if that doesn't fit the theme, make them take forever to reload (muskets anyone? )

Of course, take any of my advice with a grain of salt, seeing as I don't like playing missile classes in roguelikes, as they combine the worst features of melee classes (tactical monotony) with the worst features of magic classes (too many keypresses)... hopefully the new "fire at nearest" command will help with that though, and I can start playing rangers!

Come to think of it, why do rangers get spells anyway? Admittedly it's been a while since I played a vanilla ranger, but I seem to recall they got roughly the same variety of spells as rogues, only SOONER... they got some stealth (though not as much as rogues)... and they got the advantage of being expert missile weapon users and starting with a longbow too! Are rangers supposed to be some sort of munchkin class or am I missing something?
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Old February 13, 2010, 20:31   #10
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So long as it can't summon.
I much prefer to melee summoners, no matter what the damage ratio is.

Since that includes a significant fraction of dangerous monsters (and it does) I'm not concerned about your inequality.
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