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Old July 28, 2011, 16:04   #1
HallucinationMushroom
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Angband Chain

I've been trying to get my nephew who is an avid gamer to get into Angband for some time now and other than a few quick forays into the dungeon, no real success. Until now! Inspired by the Minecraft chain experiment, I decided to make a character we would share and email back and forth. I play the character until I see a good mentoring situation then mail back with the recent developments, instructions, insights, etc...

So far, I've shown him how to clear out a troll pit by luring out a few at a time showcasing the power of detection, how to approach small vaults coupled with the importance of trap detection, what to take into the dungeon and why, how to shoot-n-scoot early uniques, and illustrated the power of speed by providing a hack-n-back scenario with wormtongue. If we both happen to be online he will shoot me occasional questions, usually about loot or monsters which are fun to answer. It's also been fun playing around with a character that we both have a vested interest in which made me think, hey, this whole collaborative effort thing might be fun in a non-mentoring situation too... like a tag team competition or something.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share. I think savefiles of instructional situations would help me out too, especially in regards to how to approach certain situations as a mage, or how to dive, or use arrows, etc... Lol, Introband, can you pass the 200 challenges of DOOM?
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Old July 29, 2011, 08:07   #2
Svladd Cjelik
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Hehe ...I have tried time and time again to get friends playing Angband -alas to no avail -even self proclaimed hardcore gamers have trouble seeing how rewarding this game is! The best I have come in 10 years of spouting on about it's brilliance is having one friend play for a little while then use interest -though I have witnessed him reccommend it to someone else which I found odd.

For the most part, my friends see it as some kind of joke which is annoying. Matt for example will glance at my laptop and pull a face commenting "Are you playing DOS again?".

I showed it to my nephew a month or so ago who simply cannot get passed the ASCII

I find it fustrating because most, albeit all modern games lack the complexity of rogueliked yet people only see it as something dated, far passed it's time and not worth investigating.

In fact, the only game that in my mind comes close in terms of replayability and complexity is Anarchy Online, which the same friends complain that it looks dated blah blah blah.

So um ...wanna swap nephews?
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Old July 29, 2011, 08:20   #3
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svladd Cjelik View Post
I find it fustrating because most, albeit all modern games lack the complexity of rogueliked yet people only see it as something dated, far passed it's time and not worth investigating.

In fact, the only game that in my mind comes close in terms of replayability and complexity is Anarchy Online, which the same friends complain that it looks dated blah blah blah.
You are right about replayability, but not about complexity. Not anymore. There are games that exceed roguelikes in complexity, like Civ-series. Unfortunately, while being very complex they also lack the huge randomness of roguelikes, in roguelikes every game is different (or at least it should be different). That is the strong point of roguelikes like Angband.

Angband is actually quite simple game, but OTOH, so is chess, and still it has gazillon different combinations of how to play the game. It is the amount of combinations that makes game ... challenging.
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Old July 29, 2011, 09:04   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
There are games that exceed roguelikes in complexity, like Civ-series.
*coughcoughEVEcoughcoughpassout*
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Old July 29, 2011, 15:18   #5
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I was trying to hook him for life by helping him get to places where Angband gets considerably more interesting. But, perhaps all I really needed was a good Angband trailer set to a typical dramatic score. A montage of scenes showcasing everything cool.

Kind of like the link from this site:
http://angband.oook.cz/fun/lotr3.php

On a bigger scale, of course, showing off actual gameplay footage, like fireball spells at delay 9, dragon breath, character selection screens, interesting rooms, fights, destruction, vaults... you know, the memorable stuff from your favorite characters. If I could do such a thing I would. If I find some spare time I might try, but I would be starting from absolute ground zero, no talent, no tools, etc...
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Old July 29, 2011, 17:56   #6
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I wouldn't discount the first few levels, especially for beginners. It's when their mental model of the game really forms and it's refreshingly straightforward.
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Old July 29, 2011, 22:59   #7
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I agree wholeheartedly. Actually, I got hooked on Moria which pretty much has no bells and whistles. I was 12 and the promise of adventure and control of a character in an rpg was just what I needed after Dad banned my Gold Box games because they were, gasp, D&D. However, my nephew is 21 and I feel like I need a sexy selling point to really get him playing.
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Old July 30, 2011, 06:42   #8
Svladd Cjelik
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Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
There are games that exceed roguelikes in complexity, like Civ-series.
Yes, you are correct. Let me try again ...I only really play RPG's and I guess when I say more complex I mean in specific areas the stat system/the resistance system/race class combinations/item database, and when you multiply these out, the variation from game to game is staggering.

Angband feels a lot more complex to me than chess when I think about how many possible actions I have each turn, and how important they are in terms of the YASD factor among other things. And you know, there are like 6 different pieces in chess and hundreds (maybe I think) in Angband.

As an after thought ...I also used to play the "X" series of games and as vast as they are, the formula seems a lot simpler in my head than Angband ...but maybe I just think this because in my head there is a lot more at stake when I play Angband.
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Old August 8, 2011, 14:10   #9
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try to feed him zangband tk (i guess version 240r5 (?) was a nice one).

that's how i got into angband. if you've never played rogue-likes i think it IS a bit difficult to get immersed. you don't know the keys, you don't know which items to buy, you don't know why you die all the time, you don't know why the hell you deal much more damage with a dagger than with a much more expensive broad sword, etc etc... and if additionally you have to stare at letters and imagine they're orcs, i guess it's almost unavoidable to turn away from it towards a more accessible game.
i think graphics really help in the beginning. at least you can somehow see which kind of enemy you're dealing with, you can watch your sword and armour in the equipment screen. + in zangband you have wilderness and quests, you have fancy races like chaos warrior (?) whose mutations (and their sound) are a really interesting addition, etc... i think it really gets you hooked much easier. it simply looks cool.

and after a while (i guess) he'll change to vanilla on his own because in z, you can't dive. that's at least what happened to me. i heard about diving everywhere, and i simply wanted to do it.
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