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Old March 10, 2011, 04:05   #61
dos350
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i played one no seling game~ for the competition, i get back to town and i cant afford to recall, i suicide that char and i plan to not play no selling ever
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Old March 10, 2011, 04:35   #62
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Since I saw this thread again I thought I would post thoughts on no selling after a bit more experience with it, per PD's request. I'm still not a huge fan of it and prefer selling games.

The only playing I've done since 3.2 has been the two V competitions, both of which involved diving like crazy. I will concede that both selling and no selling tend to give enough AU for consumables, like ?WoR/?phase/!CCW. I don't think I was ever a compulsive seller and once I had enough AU for stat gain potions I tend to recall for consumables or to rekit more than to sell.

The crux of why I don't like no selling is that in a super fast diving game, there is a difference in AU availability between selling and no selling. A diving character will see the same number of ego items in both games but will likely see less large AU drops. In the no selling comp char, I ended up squelching AU in the mid DL50s, compared to low 40s in the selling comp char. This difference effectively limits the ability to purchase from the BM in the early/mid game. Somebody posted back in Dec (Timo?) about selling everything to get a very early "trickery. Those albeit rare but important decisions can't occur in no selling games. Maybe with the revamped selling prices AU availibility is equal. I'm sure at a more reasonable playing/diving speed what I wrote isn't necessarily true either - Derakon seemed to have an abundance of AU in his post.
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Old April 12, 2011, 21:24   #63
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You hit it. You killed it.

Noting a few mystery messages when wielding Grond.

Seems that when one has multiple swings / round, and the first swing causes an earthquake to occur, mobs are being pushed/moved around by falling rock, causing some weird messages to come up (even though the original mob has yet to be slain!).

"The Great Ice Wyrm wails out in pain! You hit it. You have killed it."

Instead of the Great Ice Wyrm standing adjacent to me, at the start of the round, apparently, falling rock has caused it to be moved a square further away. What exactly I hit, what exactly I killed, I have no idea. Since I have SeeInvis, Telepathy, Infra out to 100', and pretty good Troll eyesight, I would like to think I would know what is standing next to me when Grond delivers a blow.

Another strange message when wielding Grond:

The Berserker concentrates on his body.
The Berserker starts moving faster.
You hit the Berserker. <3x>
The Barrow wight wails out in pain! <2x> <-- earthquake effect
The Barrow wight is embedded in the rock!
The Beserker wails out in pain!
You hit the <player> (offscreen).
You have slain the <player> (offscreen).


To me this makes it seem there is a bug where falling rock offscreen is hitting something that I am getting credit for "hitting"... not Grond, the weapon I am wielding.... unless Grond suddenly has a beam-effect that I'm not aware of.

Version 3.2.0 - not sure which nightly build I'm using (if that makes a difference...)

Is the issue stemming from mobs being moved before a round ends, hence, moving them into places and spaces where they do not officially exist prior to the screen redraw at the end of the round?

I'm guessing the effect is stemming from the flow of code in spells2.c, but I can't quite place it. Unless this bit is the guilty section:

/* Hack -- Escape from the rock */
if (sn)
{
/* Move the monster */
monster_swap(yy, xx, sy, sx);
}


Doing this mid-round might cause one to swing at and kill ghost (its), I think.

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Old April 12, 2011, 21:32   #64
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Yeah, this is known, and IIRC there's a fix in staging, if it isn't in the most recent nightly.
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Old April 12, 2011, 21:47   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Yeah, this is known, and IIRC there's a fix in staging, if it isn't in the most recent nightly.
It is - the 9th April one.
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Old April 12, 2011, 23:33   #66
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It is - the 9th April one.
okee dokee.. I'll try to keep up with the IIRC chatter, then.

Thanks.
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Old April 12, 2011, 23:57   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulian View Post
The crux of why I don't like no selling is that in a super fast diving game, there is a difference in AU availability between selling and no selling. A diving character will see the same number of ego items in both games but will likely see less large AU drops. In the no selling comp char, I ended up squelching AU in the mid DL50s, compared to low 40s in the selling comp char. This difference effectively limits the ability to purchase from the BM in the early/mid game. Somebody posted back in Dec (Timo?) about selling everything to get a very early "trickery. Those albeit rare but important decisions can't occur in no selling games. Maybe with the revamped selling prices AU availibility is equal. I'm sure at a more reasonable playing/diving speed what I wrote isn't necessarily true either - Derakon seemed to have an abundance of AU in his post.
Hint: no-selling gives you larger piles of $$ than you could conjure up selling stuff in town.
no-selling means you don't bother hauling junk back to town (like high-level Priest/Mage books, rings of escaping, etc.) for treasure.
no-selling simplifies the game greatly.

And, the best part about no-selling, its an OPTION. You don't have to play it if you don't want to. Especially in an IronMage (IronMan) game, no-selling is a bit of an advantage, actually.

--SBux--
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Old April 13, 2011, 20:58   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacebux View Post
Especially in an IronMage (IronMan) game, no-selling is a bit of an advantage, actually.
How exactly is it an advantage? An ironman player couldn't care less about increased gold drops. Are there other changes that I am overlooking?
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Old April 14, 2011, 20:38   #69
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Quote:
Hint: no-selling gives you larger piles of $$ than you could conjure up selling stuff in town.
no-selling means you don't bother hauling junk back to town (like high-level Priest/Mage books, rings of escaping, etc.) for treasure.
no-selling simplifies the game greatly.

And, the best part about no-selling, its an OPTION. You don't have to play it if you don't want to. Especially in an IronMage (IronMan) game, no-selling is a bit of an advantage, actually.

--SBux--
I posted that comment quite a while ago, and since then no selling was discussed in detail in another thread. I've accepted I'm probably the only person with this view. All I can tell you is to play a few no selling games where you dive as fast as you can and see if you have enough AU for nifty BM swag. The game isn't designed to make playing for turncount easier, nor should it be. I'm glad you like no selling.

Quote:
How exactly is it an advantage? An ironman player couldn't care less about increased gold drops. Are there other changes that I am overlooking?
I suppose the OP means you can squelch gold immediately? I do this in non-ironman games eventually, though there was talk of removing gold squelching to make creeping coins more challenging.
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Old April 14, 2011, 20:59   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulian View Post
I suppose the OP means you can squelch gold immediately? I do this in non-ironman games eventually, though there was talk of removing gold squelching to make creeping coins more challenging.
Rather than removing squelching when it makes mimics obvious, my plan is to make mimics hidden (like squelched items) when their kind is squelched. This requires committing potion/scroll mimics to mimicking a particular kind of potion/scroll, which shouldn't be too hard.

My ultimate goal is that mimics should be indistinguishable from the item, until the player is attacked by the mimic (or tries and fails to move onto the same square to pick up the item, or targets the square with an attack, etc).
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