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Old May 25, 2011, 17:05   #41
jens
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Bug:

I accidentally tripped a summoning trap. The game then gave me the following message: 'Effect not handled.' I did not notice anything not working, but the message should probably not be...
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Old May 25, 2011, 17:24   #42
jens
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No feedback from game (for staff of cure light).

I used a staff to identify it, nothing happened. I then check my inventory and see that the staff has {tried}, so I did do something. If I then try it again the game reports how many charges the staff has left.

I'm not sure if this is new or old, but I like it when I get a message from the game when I do something...

Suggestion:
1) Quick fix: give a message about charges also the first time you use a staff (wand).

2) Think about introducing a message for arbitrary uses (i.e. when no other feedback is given from the game about the results of the use, e.g. 'You use/activate/zap/aim the ...[, 8 charges remaining]')
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Old May 25, 2011, 17:31   #43
kaypy
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I got, IIRC, an excellent feeling early on, but that was a _Dispel Evil on level 2...

(My character history is filling up with transcribed reports along the lines of "48 orcs dissolve!" 8-)

Edit: just found an artifact, on the ground, in an "unsure it will be worthwhile" maze. Surely, even with preserve on, an artifact should bump up the level feeling more than that?

Last edited by kaypy; May 25, 2011 at 17:46.
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Old May 25, 2011, 17:57   #44
Derakon
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Hang on, so level feelings are split out by item and monster now? Ick.

I mean, I'll need to play it a bit to see how it actually goes, but I can't see this doing anything beyond encouraging scumming...
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Old May 25, 2011, 20:20   #45
Magnate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derakon View Post
Hang on, so level feelings are split out by item and monster now? Ick.

I mean, I'll need to play it a bit to see how it actually goes, but I can't see this doing anything beyond encouraging scumming...
But ... that's what level feelings are for. It's why they were invented.

I didn't mean to remove the delay though, not sure how that happened.

@kaypy: not necessarily. How good was it, how deep, and how far out-of-depth?

/me goes off to check out summoning traps
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Old May 25, 2011, 20:41   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Bug:

I accidentally tripped a summoning trap. The game then gave me the following message: 'Effect not handled.' I did not notice anything not working, but the message should probably not be...
Got it - thanks. There was a "break" where there should have been a "return". Fixed for the next nightly.
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Old May 25, 2011, 21:21   #47
Antoine
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It's great to see the work on level feelings

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Old May 26, 2011, 01:20   #48
kaypy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnate View Post
@kaypy: not necessarily. How good was it, how deep, and how far out-of-depth?
I don't know, seemed pretty powerful, although not really geared to my character...

Power 287 according to the logs, found at l22
Code:
Artifact index is 109
the Glaive of Larnend (2d6) (+16,+31) [+9] <+2>
Object is deemed known
Object flags are:
WIS
CHR
SPEED
SLAY_ANIMAL
SLAY_EVIL
SLAY_ORC
SLAY_TROLL
KILL_DRAGON
KILL_UNDEAD
RES_LIGHT
RES_CHAOS
SEE_INVIS
IGNORE_ACID
IGNORE_ELEC
IGNORE_FIRE
IGNORE_COLD
BLESSED
HIDE_TYPE
SHOW_MODS
HATES_ACID
HATES_FIRE
SHOW_DICE
Slay multiplier for: animalsx2 evil creaturesx2 orcsx3 trollsx3 dragonsx5 undeadx5 
sv is: 11625033
 and t_m_p is: 4977867 
times 1000 is: 609
Adding power from to_dam, total is 77
Adding 17 power for dam dice
After multiplying power for might, total is 94
Adjusted for slay power, total is 133
Adding power for to hit, total is 157
Adding power for to_ac of 9, total is 166
Adding power for WIS, total is 176
Adding power for CHR, total is 180
Adding power for SPEED, total is 220
Adding power for RES_LIGHT, total is 226
Adding power for RES_CHAOS, total is 246
Adding power for SEE_INVIS, total is 252
Adding power for IGNORE_ACID, total is 255
Adding power for IGNORE_ELEC, total is 256
Adding power for IGNORE_FIRE, total is 259
Adding power for IGNORE_COLD, total is 260
Adding power for BLESSED, total is 261
Adding power for pval total of 32, total is 261
Adding power for multiple normal slays, total is 271
Adding power for multiple x5 slays, total is 279
Adding power for multiple high resists, total is 287
Adding power for item activation, total is 287
FINAL POWER IS 287
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Old May 26, 2011, 11:42   #49
jens
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Level feelings are definitely too low, at least at low dlvls.

I dutifully stairscummed for a bit to get a feel for the feelings, got a variation of the three lowest on both, until after a while I got this at dlvl 12:

You feel nervous about this place, and you have a very good feeling...

The best I've seen, so I decided to explore. I met some OoD monsters and some OK stuff, and then I found a Greater Vault:

Greater vault
N:45:The Bank From Hell
31 OoD monsters
- Knight Templar, Shardstorm, Master vampire, Mature white dragon, Young multihued dragon, etc.

I did battle with the vault (but skipped the room with the real goodies) and found
- Thengel, Battle axe of Venom, shield of Resist Cold, Cestus, leather of Restist Lightning, plus various enchanted objects.

Including 3 savefiles (1, when I arrive at the level, 2 when I found the vault, 3 when I have cleared the vault)
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Old May 26, 2011, 12:38   #50
jens
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Level feelings

If the power calculations you are using are similar to the ones in the spreadsheet at (http://www.terminalarrogance.com/mon_pwr.xls) then one real problem is that those power levels are qubic in dlvl for many of the levels. In your code you divide it with dlvl, a factor that is linear in dlvl. There is no way that it can give similar results over the whole dungeon.

Some suggestions, and all of them are unrelated, so if you dismiss one of them, please still consider the rest...

Suggestion 1: Lower the thresholds, and increase the divisor to dlvl*dlvl (but maybe removing the division by 20).


Suggestion 2: Lower the number of feelings
Previously we had 9 feelings (excluding special and stairscuming)
Now we have 81 feelings (9 mon * 9 obj). I suggest we reduce that to 16 = 4 mon * 4 obj.

Then the formulas only need to check if a level is: Below average, about average, above average, way above average. for both monster and object feelings, which would be easier to get right, and would be easier for players to distinguish.


Suggestion 3: Another algorithm for feelings
Run some stat collection, determine average power levels for each level (for both monsters and objects), including stdev. Hardcode two tables with these values (or have them in a text file), and then use the values at the given dlvl and the stdev to determine what the feelings should be.
Problems: More work intitially. Would need to rerun the stat collection whenever major changes have been made, maybe every major release.
Upside: Would work very well when in place.
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