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Old November 14, 2011, 06:38   #1
Timo Pietilš
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Roadmap for angband

Now that Takkaria has resigned and committee has taken over how about posting a roadmap here as sticky post.

I respected Takkarias ability to keep angband angband, but I don't trust committees to do the same job right. You need to agree about future development just as well as current development and making every and all changes some developer just thinks could go into game fast changes to anarchy or at best just visionless game.
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Old November 14, 2011, 06:52   #2
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I'm not sure how well it fits with your idea, but here is a current roadmap.

Mind you, I'm also not sure of the future of rephial and trac.
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Old November 14, 2011, 07:51   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I'm not sure how well it fits with your idea, but here is a current roadmap.

Mind you, I'm also not sure of the future of rephial and trac.
It would also be interesting to hear who will fulfil Takkaria's role on the devteam (in particular, as an arbiter of what changes will be accepted).

I am sure someone has all these things in hand, I'd just be interested to hear what the plan is...

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Old November 14, 2011, 12:04   #4
Timo Pietilš
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
I'm not sure how well it fits with your idea, but here is a current roadmap..
That's just to-do list. Not why something is being changed or what are the reasons to do something. What I wish is that kind of "roadmap", because without that game will most certainly go variant. IE. it stops being angband and begins to be something else.
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Old November 14, 2011, 14:14   #5
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
Now that Takkaria has resigned and committee has taken over how about posting a roadmap here as sticky post.

I respected Takkarias ability to keep angband angband, but I don't trust committees to do the same job right. You need to agree about future development just as well as current development and making every and all changes some developer just thinks could go into game fast changes to anarchy or at best just visionless game.
Frankly I wonder if we should nominate a non-developer to be the arbiter of the team ? Someone that knows how to balance this game since a really long time.
You know, someone that actually played Frog-knows..
Just sayin'...

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Old November 14, 2011, 14:34   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Pietilš View Post
That's just to-do list. Not why something is being changed or what are the reasons to do something. What I wish is that kind of "roadmap", because without that game will most certainly go variant. IE. it stops being angband and begins to be something else.
It's worse than that - it's a to-do list for V *and* a to-do list for v4, in one place.

Part of the problem with doing proper long-term planning for development is that nobody on the team knows who will be able to do what by when - which is kind of essential for any serious planning. I don't even know what I'll be able to do myself, let alone what any other devs or other contributors will do.

@Antoine: actually the discussion we had in the team before takkaria departed was that we would try to operate without a titular maintainer, i.e. by devteam consensus. If that doesn't work, I guess we'd then look for a new maintainer (not necessarily one of the current devteam). In the meantime, anyone is welcome to join the team - we hang out in #angband-dev at irc.freenode.net
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Old November 14, 2011, 19:58   #7
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actually the discussion we had in the team before takkaria departed was that we would try to operate without a titular maintainer, i.e. by devteam consensus.
I'm sure that can work fine, so long as some person (or combination of people) on the team exercises the role of vetoing "Kewl" new features.

Perhaps what Timo is looking for is not so much a workplan as a manifesto - i.e. what kinds of changes are appropriate for V, and what are not. (I think Geoff Hill and Takkaria both made some comments along these lines in recent weeks, perhaps in the establishment-of-V4 thread.)

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Old November 14, 2011, 20:54   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoine View Post
I'm sure that can work fine, so long as some person (or combination of people) on the team exercises the role of vetoing "Kewl" new features.

Perhaps what Timo is looking for is not so much a workplan as a manifesto - i.e. what kinds of changes are appropriate for V, and what are not. (I think Geoff Hill and Takkaria both made some comments along these lines in recent weeks, perhaps in the establishment-of-V4 thread.)
Yeah, I think we pretty much feel we've done that, with the whole v4 thing.

Basically, my view is that pretty much nothing goes into V except bugfixes and changes about which there's complete consensus - this was the whole point of creating v4 - to appease the people who said "V should be about bug fixes and UI improvements". So gameplay changes should go into v4 first - if it's uncontroversial it can go into V quickly, and the length of time it takes to migrate to V should be in direct proportion to how big/radical/controversial it is.

Underlying improvements, like UI and refactoring, can go the other way - done in V first to get them out to the world, and ported to v4 when someone feels like doing the work.

The thing is, there's not a lot of coding going on at the moment. v4 is already quite different from V, but there aren't yet lots of discrete changes that could be propagated to V (though some small fixes have been, and the object detection nerf). I'm about to merge Nomad's new room parser into v4 tonight, which should be a good candidate for going into 3.4 if people like the new rooms.

Having said that there's not much going on at the moment, let's not forget that the 3.4 dev versions are already really quite different from 3.3.x - new pits/nests, improved mimics, nerfed detection, reduced stack size, etc.

In a few months time I envisage that there will be quite a few things in v4 which are getting various different critical receptions, and the good/popular ones can be migrated to 3.4 while the, er, less polished ones stay in v4.

One thing we're all agreed on is that we want to get Shockbolt's tiles working for 3.4. Once that's done, we'll have a proper discussion about a release date for 3.4 and what else ought to go in it, and when to enter feature freeze, and who will be release manager, etc. etc.
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Old November 14, 2011, 21:13   #9
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My only question is, what happens if there is not a consensus? Who decides? Somebody has to fill that role & be the game visionary. Otherwise Angband just becomes several variants all rolled up in the same executable(d_mband, fizzixband, magnateband...etc). Of course those sound like fun variants with plenty of good ideas, but it wouldn't be Angband either.
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Old November 14, 2011, 21:17   #10
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Were it up to me, I'd push it even more towards the Middle-earth feel, after all, it's Angband..
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