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Old December 24, 2011, 12:59   #21
tametick
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Originally Posted by Shockbolt View Post
Wall decorations and wall variations have been painted, even 2.5D walls have been made, but the current Angband code doesn't handle the above yet..
This is looking really good, and I hope the code part will do your really nice tiles justice
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:01   #22
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Angband has three big problems IMO: UI is not great (far better than many other RLs IMO but still not good enough for 2012), it encourages grinding too much (personal opinion obviously) and it lacks a real consistent theme.
I would add to those that it's too slow to get to the interesting parts, but I guess that's contained in your 2nd point (as if you dive really fast you do get a more interesting game, but angband very much does not encourage the player to do that).
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:17   #23
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Originally Posted by tametick View Post
I would add to those that it's too slow to get to the interesting parts, but I guess that's contained in your 2nd point (as if you dive really fast you do get a more interesting game, but angband very much does not encourage the player to do that).
You've missed quite a few discussions then. We've been encouraging diving so much over the past four years that there was a backlash against it, because people feel that the "true Angband spirit" is actually to be more difficult and grindy, so the pendulum has swung back a little. Interestingly Jeff, the OP of this thread, was one of the most vocal "you've done too much to encourage diving" opinion formers.
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:20   #24
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The problem is that it is human nature to do cumbersome & annoying things to gain an advantages, only to later declare it's sucking to have to play this way (even though they dont have to).

I dont see how it can be both more grindy & difficult. If it is difficult it's by definition not grindy, and if it is grindable then the difficulty vanishes
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:21   #25
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You've missed quite a few discussions then. We've been encouraging diving so much over the past four years that there was a backlash against it, because people feel that the "true Angband spirit" is actually to be more difficult and grindy, so the pendulum has swung back a little. Interestingly Jeff, the OP of this thread, was one of the most vocal "you've done too much to encourage diving" opinion formers.
Like the vast majority of (both potential & actual) players, I don't read the forums

I only got here because Andrew posted a link on his blog.
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:35   #26
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The problem is that it is human nature to do cumbersome & annoying things to gain an advantages, only to later declare it's sucking to have to play this way (even though they dont have to).

I dont see how it can be both more grindy & difficult. If it is difficult it's by definition not grindy, and if it is grindable then the difficulty vanishes
Ah, then I don't think I interpreted your original point correctly. I mistook 'grinding' to mean 'forces the player to stay at shallower depths and grind for xp/gear because it's too hard to descend'. That obviously isn't what you meant. Sorry.
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:39   #27
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Like the vast majority of (both potential & actual) players, I don't read the forums

I only got here because Andrew posted a link on his blog.
Potential players, definitely. Actual players, I'm not so sure. The package popularity stats for Debian & Ubuntu suggest that Angband doesn't have that many players. I don't know the download stats for rephial - there may be a significant number of Windows or Mac players who never visit Oook.

Regardless, it was interesting that your immediate reaction was that the game is still not sufficiently encouraging of diving. If that was based on playing 3.3.2, it should give us pause for further thought.
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:46   #28
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Potential players, definitely. Actual players, I'm not so sure. The package popularity stats for Debian & Ubuntu suggest that Angband doesn't have that many players. I don't know the download stats for rephial - there may be a significant number of Windows or Mac players who never visit Oook.

Regardless, it was interesting that your immediate reaction was that the game is still not sufficiently encouraging of diving. If that was based on playing 3.3.2, it should give us pause for further thought.
Each month, there's about 1500 downloads on rephial. 70% Windows, 20% OS X and 10% source.
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:47   #29
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Each month, there's about 1500 downloads on rephial. 70% Windows, 20% OS X and 10% source.
Ok, then tametick was absolutely right - the vast majority of those people are not reading Oook. Unless everyone here is downloading it several times a month ;-)
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Old December 24, 2011, 13:50   #30
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One way of many, could be to use either pop up windows or minimized/expanded menus from a bottom located section, see examples below:



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