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Old December 24, 2011, 14:00   #31
tametick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockbolt View Post
One way of many, could be to use either pop up windows or minimized/expanded menus from a bottom located section, see examples below:
What do you think of the way I solved it with the screens sliding in/out in Cardinal Quest? You can find the free version on kongregate.

Last edited by tametick; December 24, 2011 at 14:42.
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Old December 24, 2011, 14:34   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tametick View Post
What do you think of the way I solved it with the screens sliding in/out in Cardinal Quest? You can find the free version on kongregate.
First impression, it looks good! Gotta run (family dinner/gifts etc) so I didn't get a chance to actually try the game yet.
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Old December 24, 2011, 14:39   #33
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Originally Posted by takkaria View Post
Each month, there's about 1500 downloads on rephial. 70% Windows, 20% OS X and 10% source.
Wow, that is a lot more downloads than I would have expected. Also kind of funny that 70% are for windows and only one dev uses windows. Obviously this means we need to force the devs to switch operating systems to match the player distribution

Or maybe that most windows users are not smart enought to be devs...crap
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Old December 24, 2011, 15:34   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takkaria View Post

1. Do you want to retain a text-only mode? I decided I did, which meant designing a system that would work with either text or graphics, which is a hell of a lot of work and requires a fundamental rewriting of the game internals in a way that choosing one display mode and going with it doesn't. If you just go with graphics, then you can hardwire them in, and not worry about piffling things like abstracting the game core from the UI before you can even get started.

(snip)

Choosing graphics and running with it would make life a lot easier.
Personally, I always play with ASCII characters, but there's absolutely no reason that can't be incorporated into a nice graphical GUI. (Character glyphs *are* graphics after all.)

Using e.g. SDL as the single UI backend could work fine. You could have nice and compact graphical representations of e.g. "exp to level" (a "percentage bar" or some such), more compact ways of showing status effects with a set of little icons, etc. etc. -- and still have good support for ASCII for the main dungeon display.

(The only reason I haven't used the SDL backends was the lack of support for multiple physical monitors.)
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Old December 24, 2011, 15:39   #35
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Originally Posted by DarkGod View Post
The problem is that it is human nature to do cumbersome & annoying things to gain an advantages, only to later declare it's sucking to have to play this way (even though they dont have to).

I dont see how it can be both more grindy & difficult. If it is difficult it's by definition not grindy, and if it is grindable then the difficulty vanishes
I agree with your first sentence but not the second, at least as I interpret it.

If the game is easy, there is no reason to search for items because you are prepared to go deeper. If the game is difficult, you may need to grind to be better prepared for deeper levels.
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Old December 24, 2011, 15:52   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungle_Boy View Post
Wow, that is a lot more downloads than I would have expected. Also kind of funny that 70% are for windows and only one dev uses windows. Obviously this means we need to force the devs to switch operating systems to match the player distribution

Or maybe that most windows users are not smart enought to be devs...crap
The number was a surprise to me too, but the high proportion of Windows users wasn't. Linux, despite the major efforts made by distros like Ubuntu, is still nowhere near as immediately accessible as Windows. It's the classic analogy of being able to fly anywhere in the world for free but you have to build your own aeroplane seat. So Linux attracts the kind of people who like tinkering with stuff - and those are the people more likely to join a devteam ;-)
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Old December 24, 2011, 16:59   #37
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(newbie poster here, i've been following some of the discussion on roguelikes for a while, but i may have an option for consideration)

if we're really wanting to separate systems, to add in tons of more flexibility, and essentially make angband and its variants more designer friendly, we may want to consider a lower-level overhaul by moving towards an Entity-Component-System architecture. I've been doing alot of personal research on it recently and have been thinking of using it as a foundational framework for some of my projects. This archetectural type should work wonders for roguelikes due to their non-heavy graphical nature as well as their usual non-real-time gameplay (ECS architectures can get a bit process heavy since it diverges from an OOP model, but you gain tremendously in ability to process pieces independently as well as enable a more data-focused design approach).

A good overview set of articles can be found at T=Machine http://t-machine.org/index.php/2007/...opment-part-1/. While the article talks about MMO architectures, it has many useful concepts i think the roguelike community could take advantage of.
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Old December 24, 2011, 22:54   #38
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I hope no one takes this a arrogant thing to say (as I'm no RL's dev nor have ever participated in this forum, and my experience with Angband is minimal), but i'd like to suggest a couple of improvements to you guys. I'm very sorry if this things already exist (and I'm unaware or have already been discussed).
1. I think someone mentioned this in the early posts in this tread, but: have you thought about a DCSS-like who's on the screen feature? I mean, DCSS (Crawl) displays in it's right info column a list of monsters on screen. That worked MARVELS for me to get into that game, it is a neat feature.
2. A DCSS-like scroll-the-screen-as-you-move option (the way Angband scrolls the screen is a bit of a turn-off for me)
3. DCSS-like auto-explore funtion.
I'm sorry to suggest so many DCSS features, please don't take it like I wanna see every RL become a copy of Crawl. Nevertheless, I think the reason DCSS is so sucessful in th RL's world is that it is really really aproacheable. It is very easy to play (if you know the RL general convetions, you can jump right in to the ascii interface) for a begginer, and it offers all kind of convenience details that smoothen the getting-used-to phase. I believe, every single RL should look at what others have done right and try to learn the lessons (not necesarily copy, but analize and learn).
Sorry if I'm off-topic, etc.
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Old December 24, 2011, 22:56   #39
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By the way, about the download stadistics:
Linux distros get their Angband from the repos, not from the dev's homepage (I'm sure you guys know it, but noone mentioned it, so...)
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Old December 24, 2011, 23:29   #40
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Thanks for the suggestions, PunkCapitalist. And welcome to the forums! To respond to your points in order:

1) There's a monster list that you can pull up with one of the '[' or ']' commands (the other one's the item list). You can create a new term window and set it to always display the monster list (go to the window settings in the '=' screen) so you can always see what monsters you're aware of.

2) Modern Angband should have an "always center on the player" scroll option. I'm not familiar with DCSS but that option makes the scrolling update with every movement, not just when the player gets near the edge of the screen.

3) We talked about an auto-explore option awhile back. As I understand it (again, not familiar with DCSS), DCSS is readily able to tell when the player might need to make a meaningful decision. It's a lot harder to make that kind of decision in Angband, especially given how you need to know what monsters are in the area before you actually see them. I don't think that the Angband developers are philosophically opposed to having an auto-explore option; it's just not clear how Angband auto-explore could work.
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